Fluffeepuff wrote:I've been following the development of all three machines...

Another way to think about pricing is to look at the competition.

What is the cost of other machines that have pressure profiling? Temperature profiling? And what machines have the advanced features of the DE1+, at any price (flow profiling, pre-infusion end detection)? Or a paddle controller (DE1PRO).

I believe we're competing with the Strada EP, and Slayer and Synesso, and we're a fraction of their price. And we offer desirable features none of those machines have.

decent_espresso wrote:I believe we're competing with the Strada EP, and Slayer and Synesso, and we're a fraction of their price. And we offer desirable features none of those machines have.

I understand that path of reasoning, but I still think it's not a viable one based on what I would pay for something. I'm likely in a small segment of the espresso pro-sumer community, but I don't have $8k, or even $4k to spend on a machine. If the DE1 Pro was $2500, it's now in the price point of the other dual-boiler machines I was looking at. Does it have way more potential capability based on the features listed on the website? Absolutely. Whether or not I 'need' the increased capability over the DE1+ or even DE1 is obviously my choice which would be influenced by how the machines perform when they hit the streets.

I'm just one person; I'm sure that if your equipment performs as advertised you won't have problems moving units at your pricepoints. I just don't like spending money when the price is driven based on perceived value + arbitrary assessment of marketplace competition. However, I do this all the time with other items in various hobbies, computer components & firearms included: it's hard to get away from it, just something that has always bugged me

Still very much looking forward to the next couple months to watch your progress!

The final suitcase design for our espresso machine. We ended up making it a bit taller so that everything was more safely packed, but this also gives you a big space to put a box of miscellany under the machine (such as the power cord, other portafilters, etc)

I'm currently working on the tablet software for the DE1.

The goal is to keep it simple, but also give you some useful information about what's going on. Below are screen pictures from the software as it currently stands. Tap a big button to start that function, then tap anywhere on the 8" tablet to turn that function off.

Now is a great time to provide any feedback, as I'm in the source code as I write this.

The settings page is where most the fancy stuff will take place, such as setting water temperature, choosing a pressure profile, etc..

On the second layer buttons, it's not clear to me if those numbers are current or target and why not show both, assuming it's volumetric. Also, since you show flow, why not also volume?

Ira

ira wrote:On the second layer buttons, it's not clear to me if those numbers are current or target and why not show both, assuming it's volumetric. Also, since you show flow, why not also volume?

Good idea about displaying the target for temperature and pressure on the DE1 gui.

As to displaying volume as a sum of flow...

On the DE1, we're calculating water flow rate on the DE1 as a count of cycles of the two pumps, and that's not super accurate, so we don't feel comfortable giving you a total volume on the DE1. The number won't be that reliable. As an instantaneous flow rate, it's pretty helpful, but as a sum over ~45 seconds it's probably going to be 30% off.

For this reason, the DE1 doesn't have volumetric dosing nor flow profiling.

The DE1+ has a hardware flow meter wired into the water flow, so that we can do volumetric dosing, and also flow profiling.

decent_espresso wrote:Another way to think about pricing is to look at the competition.

What is the cost of other machines that have pressure profiling? Temperature profiling? And what machines have the advanced features of the DE1+, at any price (flow profiling, pre-infusion end detection)? Or a paddle controller (DE1PRO).

I believe we're competing with the Strada EP, and Slayer and Synesso, and we're a fraction of their price. And we offer desirable features none of those machines have.

So are you saying, then, that your specifically want to de1pro to compete with slayer? I understand the software aspect is critical, but is the actual build material and manufacturing quality also directly comparable with a slayer?

day wrote:So are you saying, then, that your specifically want to de1pro to compete with slayer? I understand the software aspect is critical, but is the actual build material and manufacturing quality also directly comparable with a slayer?

Slayer makes professional machines for professional settings, and everything about Slayer machines is impressive.

Their prices are also higher ($8500 for the one group at https://prima-coffee.com/equipment/slayer/single-group) vs $2000 for a DE1+.

Slayer has benefits we don't have, just like as we have features they don't have. Different beasts.

I think Slayer is amazing, and inspiring. We're selling something much less expensive with a different value mix.

I guess, your response to the previous query stated your were in competition with slayer, and defended Decent's pricing based on that (and other) assumption of completion. Now your reply is almost a rebuttal of your own rebuttal, which seems to renew and give vitality to some of the previous posters thoughts, imo. It sortof feels like a real dance around the market.

I can't help but wonder, just wonder mind you not saying I have confidence in myself, if it's not better to more realistically analyze the market you can currently dominate and make a profit, then, with those profits, make a higher quality built machine that can go toe to toe with Slayer?

decent_espresso wrote:I'm currently working on the tablet software for the DE1.

The goal is to keep it simple, but also give you some useful information about what's going on. Below are screen pictures from the software as it currently stands. Tap a big button to start that function, then tap anywhere on the 8" tablet to turn that function off.

Now is a great time to provide any feedback, as I'm in the source code as I write this.

The settings page is where most the fancy stuff will take place, such as setting water temperature, choosing a pressure profile, etc..

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I was wondering, with your programmable options will it be similar to a digital camera with, for example, with "shutter control" where the computer allows you to change one setting and automatically adjusts the others to give an optimal exposure or extraction in the case of espresso? Or will it be 100% manual where every parameter will need to be set, or somewhere in between? I suppose for the most part I see initial setup being difficult to guess too much until pouring a few shots and then tweaking as needed. Specifically, I think the flow rate might be most difficult for me to anticipate initially. Perhaps there is more information out there than I am aware of with specific numbers, but I do not know of an ideal flow rate for given effects or types of coffee. May I ask where you will have your presets set to and what information you have based this on? Also, since I do not see the portafilter flow adapter you had mentioned in other posts is this flow rate simply the rate at which water enters the portafilter rather than the flow leaving the portafilter and entering the cup? Or is the flow rate only applicable if one has your Bluetooth scale attached?