Decent Espresso Machine - Page 48
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cccochran
- Posts: 36
- Joined: 8 years ago
"Coffeekid" expressed my sentiments perfectly.
I want the machine to look good on my counter.
Perhaps a shallow reason, but one which impacts many of our purchase decisions.
I want the machine to look good on my counter.
Perhaps a shallow reason, but one which impacts many of our purchase decisions.
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VictorPDX
- Posts: 4
- Joined: 7 years ago
Artist friend of mine, with commercial experience and good reputation, tells me the DE1 looks are spot on for today's trends seen in this type of equipment.There's no mystery that the DE1 and DE1+ are funky looking machines compared to their E61 heat exchanger and double boiler counterparts.
While I like all the chrome from the classic machines, the DE1 looks very clean and I'm so happy to see a machine that weights around 30lbs and not 60lbs.
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roastini
- Posts: 207
- Joined: 7 years ago
The thing I would add to this is that the trivet approach is really, it seems to me, less about functionality per se than it is about aesthetics - the notion that pooled up water on the top of the drip tray is ugly. But if the way that pooled up water is avoided is with a drip tray that many deem aesthetically unpleasing, even when no water is pooled on it, then the "advantage" of avoiding pooled up water sort of disappears.coffeekid wrote:I understand the philosophical approach to this design: do not compromise on function anywhere; once we start compromising and pandering to superficial design needs, we begin lowering the standard and killing the spirit of the project. However, one needs to put this in the economic terms of marginal costs and diminishing return: A round-railed drip tray may increase the functionality of the collective machine to a very small degree (e.g. - less residual water pooling), but this functional upgrade has a disproportionately negative effect on the machine's overall appearance. In other words, if a laser cut drip tray is marginally less functional (on an already hyper-functional design) but adds substantial elegance to the machine, it seems myopic to pass up an easy opportunity to just make the thing look nicer for people's kitchens.
My morning cappuccino routine involves a cloth that I use to clean the steam wand. Even if you're an espresso-only type, you might want to wipe the backsplash. And you might want to have a cloth handy as part of your routine for cleaning the portafilter basket. All this being so, wiping the drip tray grate might not be the end of the world. To paraphrase Churchill (or at least an apocryphal version of Churchill), yes, there is pooled up water on the top of the stamped grate after pulling an espresso, but after a wipe it will be clean, while the trivet will still look like a backyard grill.
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decent_espresso (original poster)
- Sponsor
- Posts: 1782
- Joined: 9 years ago
FYI what matters to me in the end is functionality, aesthetics and manufacturability of a design. We're going to try to machine make a trivet prototype, but I'm also working on a punched metal prototype.
It sometimes takes a bit of imagination to go from ugly-homemade-imperfect-prototype to factory-made-real-object, but all I ask is that you give me a bit of your trust, because after all, the rest of the machine is looking good, so I'm not going to suddenly uglify it at the final hour.
It sometimes takes a bit of imagination to go from ugly-homemade-imperfect-prototype to factory-made-real-object, but all I ask is that you give me a bit of your trust, because after all, the rest of the machine is looking good, so I'm not going to suddenly uglify it at the final hour.
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Downunder55
- Posts: 27
- Joined: 7 years ago
We do love ya work and passion on thisdecent_espresso wrote:It sometimes takes a bit of imagination to go from ugly-homemade-imperfect-prototype to factory-made-real-object, but all I ask is that you give me a bit of your trust, because after all, the rest of the machine is looking good, so I'm not going to suddenly uglify it at the final hour.
and also appreciate allowing us to have some input, looking forward to seeing the updated version-
decent_espresso (original poster)
- Sponsor
- Posts: 1782
- Joined: 9 years ago
A while ago I mentioned that I was switching off the Steelie stand for the tablet instead using to a bespoke stand. The tablet got moved forward over the group head.
Advantages of the new approach is that it stays up when you tap it (the steelie stand moves a bit), the tablet can't be dropped or stolen, usb power can be cabled into (under) it, it's more forward (closer to you) and it overall looks cleaner and more integrated.
On the downside, it means the tablet is now in one place and can't just be picked up. The Steelie stand didn't actually allow angle adjustment, and with this new bracket, angle adjustment means bending the bracket, which I don't think most people will want to (or bother to) do, so we'll try to get the angle at a good one-side-fits-all compromise.
The tablet bracket, however, will be easily removable, so that if you want to move the tablet elsewhere in your kitchen, you can take the cover off, remove the bracket, and move the tablet. And if you don't want us to glue the bracket to your tablet, we'll ask you to specify them when we make your machine for you.
You will be, of course, welcome to use a Steelie (or other) stand of your choice, to hold the tablet. We might eventually have a model where no tablet is needed, and there are manual controls for espresso/steam/hot water.
Advantages of the new approach is that it stays up when you tap it (the steelie stand moves a bit), the tablet can't be dropped or stolen, usb power can be cabled into (under) it, it's more forward (closer to you) and it overall looks cleaner and more integrated.
On the downside, it means the tablet is now in one place and can't just be picked up. The Steelie stand didn't actually allow angle adjustment, and with this new bracket, angle adjustment means bending the bracket, which I don't think most people will want to (or bother to) do, so we'll try to get the angle at a good one-side-fits-all compromise.
The tablet bracket, however, will be easily removable, so that if you want to move the tablet elsewhere in your kitchen, you can take the cover off, remove the bracket, and move the tablet. And if you don't want us to glue the bracket to your tablet, we'll ask you to specify them when we make your machine for you.
You will be, of course, welcome to use a Steelie (or other) stand of your choice, to hold the tablet. We might eventually have a model where no tablet is needed, and there are manual controls for espresso/steam/hot water.
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roastini
- Posts: 207
- Joined: 7 years ago
This is not a huge issue for me, but it'd be great if there were a way to remove the tablet from the mount without needing to rip off some glue. For example, if the mount were two pieces, one (flat piece) attached to the tablet and the other attached to the machine, with the two connecting via a slot or whatever.
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decent_espresso (original poster)
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- Posts: 1782
- Joined: 9 years ago
The only way I've seen this done so far is with a metal plate glued to the tablet, and then a high power magnet on the stand. Higher cost, but it also makes the mount thicker. Also, the mount remains.
And finally, UL has made it clear that remote operation of dangerous operations such as steam is not allowed (ie, using a remote phone or physically disconnected tablet). They were not happy with a removable tablet, and we were going to use bluetooth signal strength to limit remote operation to 10ft from the DE1, otherwise risk failing UL. Glueing the tablet to the espresso machine ensures that we'll pass this UL safety test.
UL is *much* happier with physical solutions to safety problems (ie, gluing something down) vs software solutions (limiting distance with bluetooth signal strength) because there's no way they can really audit our software to make sure there's no condition where the 10ft limit is not respected. With a glued down tablet, safety is assured.
And finally, UL has made it clear that remote operation of dangerous operations such as steam is not allowed (ie, using a remote phone or physically disconnected tablet). They were not happy with a removable tablet, and we were going to use bluetooth signal strength to limit remote operation to 10ft from the DE1, otherwise risk failing UL. Glueing the tablet to the espresso machine ensures that we'll pass this UL safety test.
UL is *much* happier with physical solutions to safety problems (ie, gluing something down) vs software solutions (limiting distance with bluetooth signal strength) because there's no way they can really audit our software to make sure there's no condition where the 10ft limit is not respected. With a glued down tablet, safety is assured.
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decent_espresso (original poster)
- Sponsor
- Posts: 1782
- Joined: 9 years ago
Thanks to everyone who gave me measurements of their dispersion screen depth into their portafilter basket.
We tried everything from 5mm to 8mm (those were the measurements people gave us), and frustratingly, we still had water pooling on the puck.
More research ensued, and it turns out that the gasket material we have inside the group head brass plates was letting air come in during the flush cycle.
In other words, that gasket held when pushed outwards (water going into the group) but on pressure release, some air was released in through that gasket seal, which is above the dispersion screen. This meant that pressure was released above the water that sits on top of the coffee puck, so that the water didn't get flushed away.
We changed the gasket material (it was a kind of plastic, now it's silicone) between those brass plates, and now:
- our pucks no longer have a little pool of water on them
- there no longer is any slow dripping into your cup after the shot ends.
Gah, this little set of two details has been driving me mad for 5 months, I'm glad to have finally solved it.
We tried everything from 5mm to 8mm (those were the measurements people gave us), and frustratingly, we still had water pooling on the puck.
More research ensued, and it turns out that the gasket material we have inside the group head brass plates was letting air come in during the flush cycle.
In other words, that gasket held when pushed outwards (water going into the group) but on pressure release, some air was released in through that gasket seal, which is above the dispersion screen. This meant that pressure was released above the water that sits on top of the coffee puck, so that the water didn't get flushed away.
We changed the gasket material (it was a kind of plastic, now it's silicone) between those brass plates, and now:
- our pucks no longer have a little pool of water on them
- there no longer is any slow dripping into your cup after the shot ends.
Gah, this little set of two details has been driving me mad for 5 months, I'm glad to have finally solved it.
