plindy wrote:both candy and pastries makers use a flexible molds or sheet silicone
good to 250c in conventional ovens
have zip tied to boilers for over 3 years of 24/7 surface temp 115c
however these are a non-stick type

that looks way easier/cleaner to modify than the traditional foam insulation. i'll have to try it.

r7 wrote:If you are considering going to plastic for the drip tray, you might consider a heat resistant nylon (polyamide) base plastic, like PA12, PA6, or PA66 (nylon66 or Zytel). PA12 (Nylon 12) should be good for injection molding. It would be friendlier for skin contact than melamine.

what have you read/heard about regarding skin contact? I did some quick research and found this:
https://www.fda.gov/Food/ResourcesForYo ... 199525.htm
Touching it seems to be ok, but i would not recommend drinking the flushed water. but on a more serious note, i probably would not dump this water in my veggie garden either (what i do now with my waste water).

random q - with the new design (side mounted parts) have you noticed a change in noise? whatever beta build in your videos sound quiet enough and was curious if there were any resonance changes in the various builds.

plindy wrote:both candy and pastries makers use a flexible molds or sheet silicone good to 250c in conventional ovens have zip tied to boilers for over 3 years of 24/7 surface temp 115c however these are a non-stick type<image>

Just to confirm that I understand what you've written -- you're saying that you yourself have used a silicone sheet zip-tied to a boiler and it has had 3 years use? If so, that's really helpful to know.

Our silicone is just standard silicone, it peels right off if you cut it. It's likely the same stuff you have. What keeps it on firmly is that the had dried wrapped around the heater.

Thanks for this info, very helpful.

r7 wrote:If you are considering going to plastic for the drip tray, you might consider a heat resistant nylon (polyamide) base plastic, like PA12, PA6, or PA66 (nylon66 or Zytel). PA12 (Nylon 12) should be good for injection molding. It would be friendlier for skin contact than melamine.

anakinstoys wrote:but on a more serious note, i probably would not dump this water in my veggie garden either (what i do now with my waste water).

These are both good points, and good suggestions. I'm leukewarm on melamine for moulding the drip tray: I think we'd be better off with a definitely-food-safe even-with-hot-water material like nylon. And in ~2 weeks we should hear back from two ceramics vendors about making it lighter. If we can get to ~500g (down from 770g) I might stick with ceramic for both vessels.

anakinstoys wrote:random q - with the new design (side mounted parts) have you noticed a change in noise? whatever beta build in your videos sound quiet enough and was curious if there were any resonance changes in the various builds.

We don't yet have our new beta machine built, because we're waiting for some special valves to come from Italy (which should arrive in the next 10 days). We have everything else, and are proceeding with building the new machine up to the valves point. We'll be working on the vibration dampening of the pumps this week, and hopefully the sound will be even less than our beta 7 machine, which is already acceptably quiet (51db during espresso shot running).

WHEN WILL THE DECENT ESPRESSO MACHINE SHIP?

I get asked "when are you planning on shipping this machine" as well as "I thought this machine was done? why are you still fiddling?".

Those are very reasonable questions , and here's what I've got to say on this topic.

- -

THE SALES TOUR:

Back in November, we had a working Beta machine. Not yet feature complete, but close, and making good espresso. I went on a two month sales tour, and received a lot more interest than I had expected, especially for the DE1+'s high end features. People wanted to place orders right now, give us money, to get in line to get one of the first machines. I thought we were just a few months from being able to make what I was demoing to the public.

During the tour, my 3 Beta machines broke down several times due to shipping damage. Upon my return to Decent HQ in January, I decided to fire my mechanical engineer due to these problems, and a lack of progress while I had been gone. I hired a new one to redesign how everything was mounted inside the machine. As we went through all the internals, component by component, we found lots of areas that were "ok", but really could be improved, and rather than wait for a future version, I decided to do the improvements now.

These improvements meant:
- easier to repair (with more space inside, comes apart easily)
- longer machine life (with better cooling, many fewer water seals, longer parts longevity)
- lower energy consumption, faster startup
- better espresso (better temperature stability, better pumps)

Since it's Bugs and I funding this company and the R&D, I felt it was our decision to make: to spend more time and money making the DE1 machines better for even the earliest customers.

- -

SOME POTENTIAL FUTURE PROBLEMS FOUND

In February I hired Jeremey and Matt from Blossom Coffee - two founders of a company who did something similar to us five years ago, but it didn't go that well. They're serious engineers and businessmen with direct experience in our field, and:

a) their extensive review of our hardware uncovered new problems with our existing designs, especially in terms of longevity
b) they had many performance improving suggestions that I thought were worth doing, and that I'd feel bad if our 1st customers didn't have.

The big component I was avoiding touching was the heated group head, because it worked, but Jeremy's arguments for longevity and better & faster temperature control won me over, so I decided two weeks ago to bite the bullet and implement his suggestions.

- -

WHERE WE ARE NOW: DESIGN FREEZE END OF APRIL, MANUFACTURING START IN JUNE.

We're making great espresso, just as we did back in November, and we're whittling down the list of mechanical decisions.

Our deadline for hardware changes is the end of April, at which point the CAD model moves away from my "creative" mechanical engineer, over to my two "production" engineers, who will refine the drawings for each manufacturing partner, so that each gets made, and we'll start ordering final parts in May. Manufacturing of these "early access" machines then starts in June, and that's when we'll also be applying for final UL certification.

And of course, the day-to-day discussion progress will continue to take place on HomeBarista.com.

That suggests to me a UL certification date in August (assuming no problems with the design) and final machines begining to ship in maybe September or October. Obviously there are many variables, so the real outcome could be very different, but is that a plausible estimate?

Outstanding! At the end, we wait a bit longer for an even better designed and built product.

I already told my wife that one of these will be in our house. We are planning to replace the Breville (we already have a buyer for it) with it.

Do you find much use for the left hand leaver (The one that attaches to the group head)? I ask as I think if the group head cover went lower and had a hole for the right hand leaver to go into it may look better, but it would only work if the there was only one position for the leaver.

decent_espresso wrote:Just to confirm that I understand what you've written -- you're saying that you yourself have used a silicone sheet zip-tied to a boiler and it has had 3 years use? If so, that's really helpful to know.

Our silicone is just standard silicone, it peels right off if you cut it. It's likely the same stuff you have. What keeps it on firmly is that the had dried wrapped around the heater.

Thanks for this info, very helpful.

correct
the one with holes came off the boiler after 3 years, thickness 1.7 mm.
it was a pan for brittle & bark mold, rated for 215c oven use, dishwasher and microwave safe.
replaced with the baking mat, 3 weeks ago after boiler repair, 1.3 mm thick, rated for 225c,
43.1cm x 27.9cm, 7.99 usd
both made in china sold in us market by the company: world market



HTH