Adding milk to the 2/3oz of nectar that comes out of Caravel just seems wrong to me.

Ben Z. wrote:It has been perfected - in the Caravel. Stamped and welded stainless sheet metal and a lightweight aluminum casting. Form, function, manufacturing cost, and maintainability - all optimized.

I'm with you, but it falls short of perfection in one respect - it has been out of production for decades. I hope you will correct me if I'm wrong. That's more or less where I would go if I had the means to produce espresso machines for the domestic market, because it makes sense to me and my experience with that kind of machine has been very encouraging, but it makes you wonder. I'm not a history expert, but say 50 years ago? there were lots of these guys - I could probably think of a dozen myself. A few years later, all gone.

Did the domestic espresso machine market contracted severely in the '70s (?) and only Europiccola, Riviera and Cimbali survived? Here I'm guessing at a reason that is essentially historical - today, assuming the market has come back a little, the glaciers have receded, the commercial potential that gave rise to all those Caravelle type machines may have returned and is just waiting for those chromosomes to be recovered from the fossils. And today I dare say we have more sophisticated consumers - only a small fraction, but enough to keep a lot of high end electric pump models on the market. 30 years ago, you weren't that smart about how espresso is affected by temperature, you'd probably never had a good espresso, and you would have been looking for a "cappuccino machine" if only you could spell it. Today some of us might be ready to think about a machine with no steam.

(and that doesn't weigh 200 lbs, require special plumbing and electrical hookup, or take up half the kitchen.)

FE-AR survived until the 80's when they produced really ugly versions of La Peppina.

TUS172 wrote:So you think it is easy Hmmmm... Ever used a lathe or milling machine? Ever looked at the price of a 4" X 6" block of brass?
The intricacies involved in machining a grouphead are complex and very multifaceted. I have owned lathes and milling machines and worked with metals for years. It takes expertise and knowledge to know what processes need to be done in the correct order so that you don't end up with a piece of useless junk half way through the project. And tolerances tighter than you think to make a well functioning grouphead.
Don't get me wrong ... It can be done... but it is not a simple task.

I'm not trying to diminish what you do or have done in metalwork. Its just that we machine medical and aerospace components out of exotic materials that often involve multi-process designs with stages in the double digits. We do 4th axis machining, EDM, Swiss, and more. An engineer here once built his own micro turbine after hours with all metal components machined from solid stock (this includes the compressor) which he uses to power his rc jet which we sponsor.

So really the hard part is not the machining...its coming up with the best design...and honestly this may be a one off thing as I'm seeing no potential for profit in this. Besides I could make a one off and post the mastercam or surfcam data and a guide to replicate the components so that others can make it on their own.

Oh and an update on those used gaggia heads i was getting...they were a nightmare...someone must have cleaned them with a chemical and then never cleaned it out as the insides had mostly dissolved...but I am trying to acquire another unit as I type this.

What about something seemingly simple like bolting and Astoria or CMA group to something small like the Sama/Pontevecchio Export boiler....It might be as simple as drilling a new bolt pattern on the boiler flange? Both groups use dipper tube designs.

five and dime wrote:What about something seemingly simple like bolting and Astoria or CMA group to something small like the Sama/Pontevecchio Export boiler....It might be as simple as drilling a new bolt pattern on the boiler flange? Both groups use dipper tube designs.
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I think the weight, combined with the force needed to compress a commercial lever group would be an issue.As someone who was looking for a vintage lever for quite a while, i tried to come up with a few options including mounting a commercial lever group to an existing machine.It wasn't until i used my 2 commercial levers that i realised the work involved.There's alot of weight in a 58mm lever group, even my commercial levers have a tendency to tip forward if you don't know what you're doing, and they're 35-45kg's each.
Not saying it can't be done, but it would require significant counterweights/frame strengthening.

kitt wrote:even my commercial levers have a tendency to tip forward

... as do some smaller domestic spring levers. My Zerowatt comes with a brace in the back, so your left hand can keep it from tipping while your right cocks the lever (or vice versa.) But I am not sure I would recommend that design. It's fine for me, and probably would work with a stiffer spring, but I'm over 6' tall. It doesn't suit the lady of the house so well, because at counter height she can't put any weight over it.

You could also put the lever at the base of the machine like at La Peppina. A linkage to the top of the grouphead could be devised. Might want to make the base a bit wider though. La Peppina has a nasty habit of tipping over if you're not careful.

Hi Jason,
Unbelievable but true, I've recently found a rancilio HL complete!!!
It was like an old Cadillac forgiven in a burn (this was in a closed by years bar's cellar): dirty and plenty of dust.. but complete, with also the original UNBROKEN plexiglas cup holder!!!
I will clean it and then I will send you some pictures!!
Best,
Davide

truemagellen wrote:I like that machine alot...I personally prefer their Elisse model for looks. The problem with it is a 5 liter boiler and 1400w....just seems like that is undersized, probably the 220v is properly sized.

Besides you can get a Rancilio Classe 6 leva for close to that price right now if you import...which is a very good looking machine (performance unknown to me).

If I were to go for the home I'd get the Ponte Lusso 2 gruppi...and uprade the heating element.

But I want to make one on my own partially for looks, I want to make a modern looking lever...high tech looking. Only the Rancilio's HL cube like thing has sort of fit the bill and I cannot find those anywhere....I'm thinking industrial looking but clean links Keeys designs are two retro looking for me and besides $$$$$$$$$$$
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TUS172 wrote:So you think it is easy Hmmmm... Ever used a lathe or milling machine? Ever looked at the price of a 4" X 6" block of brass?

+1

Brass ain't cheap. I have a small lathe here and do a little machine work now and again. Even with a big CNC 4-axis mill, I'm sure machining a solid block of 360 (or whatever alloy) into a fully functional group head is no easy task.

When I work on my La Pavoni and strip it down for cleaning, etc. I hate to think how much work went into machining that little group head!

Ray