michaelbenis wrote:Leaving aside the buttons and levers argument, the obvious thing about lever machines, as you've pointed out in saying you'd prefer a manual even if you could get better results with a spring, is that they're.... incredibly personal.

A great point, Michael, and absolutely spot on!

michaelbenis wrote:The Caravel has very controllable temperature behaviour because it's an open boiler and is pretty reliable although out of production. It's also very cute. On the other hand it has a slightly detached lever action and isn't a great lever machine to be used alongside others because it requires quite a different grind, mainly because of the very narrow but deep basket (you have a very narrow window to get it right).

This is precisely why I have two grinders and two machines in my office: one for the Caravel; one for La Valentina . . . it's still not always easy for me to coax the most out of the Caravel, but -- as long as I have the time and patience for it -- the rewards are/can be well-worth it.

I actually find the Caravel easier to use than the Pavoni- or rather not easier to use- but easier to pull a god-shot. Pavoni I find very hard to get the grind correct. Howver my really old 1960's Pavoni works better than my 1990's model. No idea why.


And when I have the grind right- I get mounds of crema from the Caravel. If I was a black only drinker a Caravel would be my first and last stop. A good Cravel- treated well- I think such a machine could still be going strong in the year 2030...

unfortunately I love the milk... so hopefully my new Sama will be the business.

I actually find the Caravel easier to use than the Pavoni- or rather not easier to use- but easier to pull a god-shot. Pavoni I find very hard to get the grind correct. Howver my really old 1960's Pavoni works better than my 1990's model. No idea why.

Likely because of the 49mm basket vs the newer 51mm. My experience has been that a smaller basket is less picky about distribution and grind. I have the older 49mm basket so maybe my experience is skewed as such.

I'd agree it's easier to pull a good shot on the Caravel. There's a zone where the shots really excel, though, which is just a hair short of choking the little beast, but takes the shots to a whole new level. Even tamping slightly softer or harder can take you back into so-so territory from there.

I find I have a bit more leeway around that sweetspot with grind on the Pavoni, and my Pav is a millennium model, which I agree is fussier, especially for singles using the pod basket.

I do find the Caravel requires a slightly coarser grind, which may make it less fussy about grinders.

In my hands it has never produced much more crema than my Elektra and slightly less than the Pav. It is however always a very dense persistent crema.

The Pav is much more of a PITA to get right consistently, but once you've got the hang of it, you've got the hang of it....

I'd say SAMA/PV Export.

Fairly inconspicuous so his Italian wife won't send him to meet the Big Barista. The vintage Cimbali in Marshall's pic would be a death warrant.

Rectilinear, to satisfy his commingled moral/aesthetic sense. Clearly the ornate Pavoni is too flighty.

Less expensive, probably, than a Cremina. The OP chafes at spending $3 on a store-bought espresso.

Able to produce milk drinks, so he can practice his Italian plurals.

Hands free operation during the extraction. Idle hands are the devil's workshop. There's the fun he asked for.

The silver and brass Elektra Microcasa a Leva is beautiful to look at and pulls a nice shot too. Guests seem drawn to her... not an inconspicuous presence in the kitchen. Could be thought of as kitchen bling.

Mark

How about the vintage SAMA Export at Orphan Espresso? It is surely the most fun—it is red, it is refurbished so you can make espresso instead of working on it, and it is beautiful.

Having used many different machines, both spring lever and manual lever, I would suggest the Elektra as well. Nice looking machine, great for making a few shots in a row without the temperature problems, super steam capabilities. Only drawback is you would have to be more careful with your grind. (I modded mine so the grind is not as critical http://www.home-barista.com/lever...this-is-t5412.html). I use mine at home with a manual grinder and it works great.

As far as the manual levers are concerned, I started out with a La pavoni Europiccola, and used a pro 16 ounce Pavoni (Ambassador) as well. They were both alot of fun. Frustrating, but so rewarding when things got more consistent. Some of my best shots came from the Europiccola. However, I have both of Pavoni's on a shelf and use the Elektra at home. That is until my Faemina arrives from Italy and then we will see what will happen. Another important thing to consider is that if you will make espresso for friends once in a while, the La Pavoni will overheat, especially if you steam.

Hope you find something that suits your needs and enjoy a good cup.

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies to my opening post.
The two cafe's mentioned in S.Cruz are still open. Lulu's is now at the octagon and has a Mirage (automatic) and the espressos are very good. Cafe Pergolesi is also still very good but as I lack any visible piercings/body mutilations I feel sort of inadequate going in there.

I am in fact looking hard at the PV/Sama export. I sort of like its awkward blockiness and the thought of a working machine is appealing. If I ever find that the boiler is too small I could always change over to a larger boiler machine (PV Lusso or Cremina) later on once I have a clue of what I'm doing.
Looks are important but as my wife always says, "Italians are famous for beautiful design that often doesn't always work so well" so I'd prefer a solid, well built machine over the chrome and brass trim and wings (and lack the current budget to pay for one that has both)
I'd hate to open up the steam valve and have the machine spit parts out at me.

I'll be back in Florence for the summer so I'll try and pick up a Caravel over there. They show up pretty often in the 2nd hand shops and I'll get a chance to try one out over there. Meanwhile I'll brood some more over what to do over here.
Thanks again for the advice, I'll post again once I've gotten off the fence and made a decision.
Andrew.

rospobio wrote:vec
I am in fact looking hard at the PV/Sama export. I sort of like its awkward blockiness and the thought of a working machine is appealing. If I ever find that the boiler is too small I could always change over to a larger boiler machine (PV Lusso or Cremina) later on once I have a clue of what I'm doing.

If I were going to get a Ponte Vecchio I think I would get the Lusso for its better temperature management.