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Weird microcimbali steam relief valve....

Postby albert paca on Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:14 pm

after pulling lovely shots on my caravels, i am back to the awful aluminium beast, the older microcimbali.
putting it back together again, i have been looking at the steam relief valve, and it perplexes me. this is the older style microcimbali, of which i find very few pictures - the top of the group is cast in a single piece with the bronze bush, not removable via the usual three screws (see this Problems disassembling an old microcimbali.... thread where i am pulling it apart). it also has a very strange steam relief valve, that pokes through the top cap of the machine. does ANYONE know how this might look and function if it was in working condition?

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it consists of a screw-in brass nut with a thru-hole (quite large hole) that bolts into the boiler. it seems that the only pressure stop is from the rubberised cap at the top - and the rubber has perished. also, the thin chromed brass sleeve is cracked - it fits over an edge of the nut, with the weird heavy dispersion body in between - all lined up in order of assembly above.... that three-holed dispersion body in the middle does not seal against anything - it simply seems to rattle about in there.
i am wondering if anyone knows how these are supposed to work. i will consider replacing it with a newer relief valve, but i would much prefer to get this one working again - i just need to understand how it is supposed to work.
my guess is that the chromed sleeve pops up when it is up to pressure, rattling about and letting steam out a little, with the elements heating enough to get some pressure for steam. but it is a really odd way of going about it, so perhaps it is actually a pressure seal that i do not understand....
please help!

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Postby albert paca on Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:07 pm

could it perhaps be missing a ball or rubber part on the top of the inner stem? the heavy dispersion body might press down a little and seat a ball or rubber?

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Postby allon on Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:48 pm

Sounds like you're on the right track.
Kind of like the weight on a pressure cooker valve....

Great pictures and description, btw. I hope you find or figure out the answer.
Are there any patent numbers listed on the unit anywhere? Maybe search through the patent databases to try to find any related information...

Just grasping at straws here...
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Postby orphanespresso on Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:22 am

All correct theories so far...it is missing the steel ball which fits atop the brass stem and under the counterweight, the part with the three holes. The top two rubberish parts were likely added during history to damp down the steam, which normally sputters up through the chimney like a...chimney.

The ball is about 8-10mm in diameter, large enough to almost touch the sides of the counterweight.
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Postby albert paca on Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:28 am

doug - thanks greatly!!! will be nice to get rid of the silly rubber piece.... i have 300-series stainless balls aplenty, so i will rummage and have a look at what fits good.
long way to go yet - still trying to track down those bloody u-cup seals for the piston - hard to find the right size (but i finally found ones in new zealand that are close - just a little packing for height....)

and thanks for the encouragement allon - patent numbers - yes - there is one atop the boiler, which i am not sure is serial number, patent number or date stamp (ha! they are big numbers and i am pretty sure they did not make 13000 of these early models.... maybe....)
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Postby drgary on Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:41 pm

(More info added a couple of hours after first posting via iPhone.)

Albert,

I want to confirm what Doug is saying. That's exactly how mine works, including water sputtering out the chimney if you let too much pressure build. I find the 1000 watt element adds lots of power, so I use both elements on for quick warmup that I watch carefully, then I turn the high element off. This heating takes about 10 minutes or so. To preheat without watching the machine, just turn on the 300W element and give it more time, say 1/2 hour. When the machine is up to running temperature, to steam I turn the high element on for about 30 seconds. When steam velocity picks up through the chimney, this is just before it's ready to start sputtering hot water. That's when I open the steam valve for abundant steaming power. I immediately shut off the high element once I've foamed the milk (in my case non-fat moo juice or low fat soy milk).

But keep at it because these old monsters make great coffee; syrupy, abundant shots where when it's dialed in, you can't tell there isn't actual chocolate in the cup. I'm still hoping for more crema, but this may be because I'm awaiting new gaskets from Doug and Barb for the lever cap -- gaskets are on the way. Right now, steam is coming out around the piston shaft because the gasket isn't creating a complete seal. With that seal I'm hoping it will hold pressure better to add crema to the thick espressos I'm pulling. Another thing I've noted is I can't push against the lever to increase pressure in the pull. It's designed so that just lifts the lever handle and doesn't place pressure on the piston. I think that's a safety feature to keep a careless home barista (who, me?) from tipping it over backwards.

A final wrinkle is to drain water from the machine between uses with the water tap provided for that purpose on the right side. This slows corrosion and scale deposits. To fully drain it, you'll need to allow air into the boiler. I've done this by loosening the boiler cap or raising the lever. This will probably also work by opening the steam valve. In any case, of course, make sure you've released pressure first through the steam valve before loosening the boiler cap.
Gary
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Postby albert paca on Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:18 pm

gary, greatly appreciated run-down - marvellous!
i must admit i have been a little despairing about the machine, simple as it is, as i try to find the u-cup seals and various other parts that are no longer easy to source. and that damn aluminium - i do not like it. i work mainly in stainless steel and gold as a jeweller, and the aluminium is offensive (yes - a material snob....!)
the water drain tap is missing on my machine (a jammed screw took its place when i received it), so i am going to make one up - seems impossible to find something close to it and easy enough to make up a needle valve and a plastic knob imitating the original. i will remember to drain it, and reduce scale, as you say....
will be interesting to see the coffee that comes out at the end - different to my caravel no doubt!
thanks greatly for the touch-base - i will be sure to post finished pics and put-together....
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Postby drgary on Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:32 pm

Too bad we're continents away. If you could taste what my MC is putting out, you'd start to even love its aluminum crudeness. If OTOH you decide as a jeweler to make a casting out of a non-corrosive metal ... let me know! The idea brings to mind the alchemist's endeavor to turn sh*t into gold. :)
Gary
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Postby drgary on Thu Sep 15, 2011 8:34 pm

Albert, if you'd like, I can send you some pix of the water drain valve from more than one angle. Let me know if you'd like to see pictures of any other aspects of my MC. Probably later this weekend I'll be doing some minor disassembly to install the new gaskets at the lever cap. There are lots of good pictures of course at Orphan Espresso where Doug gives his rebuild tutorial (and I know your machine is older than his example).
Gary
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Postby albert paca on Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:30 am

gary,
thanks greatly for your kind offer of pictures, and intercontinental cuppa....
i plan to remake the water valve as a needle valve, the same as the steam. i have some black delrin and i may even print up an aqua label for it if i get carried away. any pics of the drain valve would be great! just side on really - to give me an indication of how far it normally stands out from the boiler. i was guessing it is pretty much the same shape and construction as the steam valve.
i am looking forward to using the machine, as much as i loathe the aluminium (definitely a metal at the arse end of the alchemical scale...!) i am slowly getting myself acquainted with various small domestic levers - i still have pretensions of making my own simple lever - somewhere between the caravel and the microcimbali, most definitely all stainless and stylised and sleek.... if i get to it, and it is carryable in a briefcase (unlikely, the way i over-engineer things), and i am heading to san fran, i will drop you a line and repay the offer of a cuppa!
anyway, here's to getting good old things working again!
thanks greatly.
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