Ventus Lever in North America - A Warning - Page 6

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FotonDrv
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#51: Post by FotonDrv »

AssafL wrote:One last ditch attempt prior to sending this back (I was just thinking of their inadequate responses) - you may want to try to send them a mail written in Italian.

Italians don't all know English well (I have vacationed in Italy many times). The entire issue could be lost in translation.

At the very least you'll have an epitaph for this machine in Italian which is quite fitting...
+1.
That Light at the End of the Tunnel is actually a train

cizinec (original poster)
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#52: Post by cizinec (original poster) »

Update.

I'm still slogging away with this thing. Ultimately, the power switch was fried as was the power inlet and Gicar controller. The controller was damaged by something other than what damaged the power inlet and switch. That one was on me.

So the manufacturer sent a replacement Gicar controller, power inlet and cable. The power inlet they sent had a c14 connector with a 16 amp fuse (what was originally on the machine). The replacement cord was rated 13 amps. I still can't figure that on out. I didn't leave it on long because it got hot fast. I purchased a 15 amp power cable, installed the Gicar and new power inlet. The boiler pulls 17 amps.

I turned it on and let it run. I pulled two shots. I left it on. The fuse blew after 18 hours of being on and not in use. The fuse tray was partially melted. 5x20mm 16 amp fuses are not found in my locale. I have to order online.

Before anyone tells me that these "prosumer" machines are not meant to be on all the time, I think melting plastic after being on for 18 hours is not acceptable, even in a prosumer machine.

So I'm replacing all the internal wiring with 12 gauge marine grade wire. I'm adding an inline 20 amp fuse. I'm going to install a c20 power inlet and use a 20 amp cable (it's going to a dedicated 20 amp breaker). I'm installing a 20 amp toggle switch. Finally, I'm installing this in a separate, external box to keep it away from the boiler and the water inlet.

My main concern is that the boiler may pull too many amps for the Gicar and that I'll fry the board.

Does anyone know if I can bypass the gicar for the boiler only? Power to SSR to Pressurestat to boiler? I just don't want to fry the Gicar.

I really miss my LSM now. That thing was on for ages. It ran through Hurricane Ike in Houston (we were the only street in many miles with power), a tornado in OKC and a couple of respectable earthquakes. This one can't make it 18 hours on life support. If I can, or if I can figure it out, I will eventually replace everything with solid state components. When the CEME presurestat goes, if it's possible, I'll replace with a Sirai.

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vberch
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#53: Post by vberch »

My only question is why not return it? You purchased this machine new. Why put yourself through all this?

I've purchased a number of vintage machines under assumption that they require to be rebuilt. If I bought a brand new machine for over $5,000 and had to do all this work, it would be going back faster than you can spell "espresso".
cizinec wrote:Update.

ira
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#54: Post by ira »

The Gicar can drive an SSR just fine, the output is from a relay. You'll just need to make sure the SSR is 117AC in and enough on the output side. Also, at 17 amps you'll likely need to make sure you put a heatsink on it. Or if the noise doesn't bother you, a 30 amp contactor would probably do fine.

Ira

cizinec (original poster)
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#55: Post by cizinec (original poster) »

vberch wrote:My only question is why not return it? You purchased this machine new. Why put yourself through all this?

I've purchased a number of vintage machines under assumption that they require to be rebuilt. If I bought a brand new machine for over $5,000 and had to do all this work, it would be going back faster than you can spell "espresso".
That is such a good question. Something deep down wants me to make this thing work. It's either Satan or one of those aliens.

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vberch
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#56: Post by vberch replying to cizinec »

LOL! :)

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erics
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#57: Post by erics »

I certainly hope you have sent the manufacturer and the vendor from whom you purchased this machine a link to this thread.

You also really need to measure the voltage at the outlet which the machine is connected to.
Skål,

Eric S.
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E-mail: erics at rcn dot com

jonr
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#58: Post by jonr »

A 20A variac is about $100 and could be used to reduce 17A down to < 15A.

DanoM
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#59: Post by DanoM »

cizinec wrote:That is such a good question. Something deep down wants me to make this thing work. It's either Satan or one of those aliens.
:shock: I can't think of a more logical reason to not return it. Must be the aliens, little green men: :mrgreen:

My opinion: Seriously though, prosumer machines are professional machines scaled down for home-type usage. They shouldn't be scrimping on anything, and should tolerate being on 24/7. If you are having failed controllers, burned out switches, melting fuses and other issues you should start working out a RETURN. Ignore that alien and get that thing out of your house before you have an electrical fire. Will the manufacturer continue to support you in this manner for the next 10 years? How long before you are tired of machine "maintenance", throw in in the corner of a dark room and turn to another espresso source?

Best of luck no matter how you handle it!
LMWDP #445

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AssafL
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#60: Post by AssafL »

I applaud your tenacity. I would repair it. But I have tools and knowhow to repair it. My recommendation is to return it (probably one of the only times I ever said that...).

If you still want to fix it:
The vendor seems to be more or less - useless. It seems they have never seen 18A circuits (being from Europe which usually uses a much more sensible - if shocking - 220/240V).

Here is what is worrying to me: 17A is to heat the boiler fast. But once the boiler is at 120C or so - the relay should turn it off and the current should drop to a wee over 0A (to power the rest of the consumers in the machine). At that point, the average current with the periodic off-on-off to retain the temp should be perhaps up to 10% of the 17A. Perhaps 2A average. So leaving the machine on for 18hours should not burn a 16A fuse and cause it to melt. Turning the machine on and off 18 times may cause it to melt. But leaving it on is a concern.

Most DMMs cannot measure 20A directly. I use a clamp to measure. But I would actually measure and plot the current consumption to figure out what was happening. For example, I don't know if you have GFCI on the circuit - but if you don't there may be a fault between the phase and ground (e.g. a bad heater).

Here is what I'd do:
1. Trace the wires and create a circuit diagram. So I'll know how to reconnect. I sometimes redesign if I have to (such as adding a relay). It may also be possible that that they wired it wrong (e.g. the pressure sensor is not in series with the heater; our apartment failed a megger upon final inspection - turned out a lamp fixture maker swapped a ground and neutral).
2. Disconnect the heaters and coils. Megger them at 500V. (Rationale - at this point it is a Lemon. I would not take it for granted the heaters are good and insulated. - see above). If they failed the Megger - replace.
3. Rebuild the machine: If the cabling looks good - consider using it. At least the low amperage. Look carefully at the crimps. Now gently grasp the crimp in one hand and the wire in the other and Yank Them Hard. Look again. Did they separate, budge, expose loose strands, etc? replace.
4. Build new thicker wires for the heater.
5. Inlet wire: There is a reason Espresso machines generally do not use an IEC cable. The standard C15 is rated for 10A and UL authorizes it for 15A (see below). C21 and C22 are more appropriate as are the ceramic input connectors used for heaters. I'd buy a fuse holder, a 20A fuse and thick General Cable (Carol Cable) or Belden and a terminal strip (or the big twist terminals) and hook it up directly.

C13/C14 and C15/C16 connectors for up to 15 A[10] (IEC maximum is 10 A)
C19/C20 and C21/C22 connectors for up to 20 A[11] (IEC maximum is 16 A)
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320

Good luck.
Scraping away (slowly) at the tyranny of biases and dogma.