OldNuc wrote:Having repaired way to many various commercial electrical and electronics items electronics chassis wiring is notoriously undersized primarily in the power supply. For the power wiring in this machine high quality 90C rated stranded #12 wire would be the prudent choice as at this point the actual cost difference to whoever pays the bill will not amount to $1.00 difference.

+$1.00

I usually like to upsize the wire just a little if connectors will accept it, especially for heating elements.

Were this my machine though, I would return it to the dealer and be done with it. Live and learn, pick a machine that comes from the factory ready for use. Although it is striking in appearance I'd rather have one that works out of the box.

Metatron wrote:I wouldn't use 14 AWG. It is OK if you run as a single wire, but if you coil it up at all, you will get significant heat where the wires are close together.

I once bought a coiled up 100 foot extension cord and just pulled one end out of the coil to power a tool of some sort. After 10 minutes or so, I finished and looked at the coiled extension cord. It had melted all the PVC. It was pretty scary. Last time I did that.

Basically, you have to assume that someone is going to coil up and tie the excess wire. And that could easily start a fire.

Better safe than sorry.

For the IEC cable (which you would "coil up") you are correct. But for internal wiring (which should be very short) 14AWG should be sufficient. It is going to run HOT any way since it will be next to the boiler - so I would focus on getting a well insulated silicone or Teflon (albeit Teflon insulation is a pain to use) or any other high temp stable insulation.

There is no negatives to going to 12 or even 10 AWG - but as you go higher it becomes difficult to manage the stiff wire inside the machine.

For the IEC cable I'd go with 12AWG or better - but those also become a pain to route (or even bend to reach the outlet). At 17amp I'd prefer shorter cables there as well.

DanoM wrote:+$1.00

I usually like to upsize the wire just a little if connectors will accept it, especially for heating elements.

Were this my machine though, I would return it to the dealer and be done with it. Live and learn, pick a machine that comes from the factory ready for use. Although it is striking in appearance I'd rather have one that works out of the box.

I scratch my head...

A $5k espresso machine will need service. It may need a new heating element within a few years. It will definitely need the lever O-ring re-lubed or re-placed. It will need the basket gasket replaced. So assume it will not work for very long without some attention.

Their main issue (as posted by the OP) was putting the wrong fuse in the holder. The fuse would heat up and blow. Replacing the fuse with a 20A fuse should take care of it. Otherwise, choosing a 10A IEC socket is dumb; but since IEC is a standard size with machined pins I wouldn't expect it to fail. 10A would relate to eyelet size in this case more than current handling.

For the cost of a fuse (and perhaps an IEC cable) you will be running well. For a few (less than 15$) you will also be within spec by replacing the IEC socket and PERHAPS (we don't know for sure) internal wires. For 15$ you are prepared to throw away a perfectly good machine you like????

I'd send it back if it made bad coffee. I'd send it back if the lever squeaked (like some of the L1s). I'd send it back if the temperature was not stable. I'd send it back if the chassis was bent.

But assuming it makes stunning coffee (and for 5k you have many options that do) would I send back anything for using a wrong fuse or IEC cable? Heck no...

You guys should try buying a French car. When you go to pick up a Peugeot - turn on the wipers - fog lights come on. Turn on fog lights - rear wipers turn on. At which point a technician will show up and fiddle behind the fuse box and turn the French car into a German masterpiece by getting the buttons to do what they ought to...

AssafL wrote: For the cost of a fuse (and perhaps an IEC cable) you will be running well. For a few (less than 15$) you will also be within spec by replacing the IEC socket and PERHAPS (we don't know for sure) internal wires. For 15$ you are prepared to throw away a perfectly good machine you like????

I'd send it back if it made bad coffee. I'd send it back if the lever squeaked (like some of the L1s). I'd send it back if the temperature was not stable. I'd send it back if the chassis was bent.

I agree, except when it comes to warranty - if something electrical related happens after he replaces the wires the manufacturer can claim he caused it and refuse to repair/replace it. And pretty much everything that can go wrong would be related to the wires.

Yes - he needs to work with the manufacturer on this. If the manufacturer doesn't respond - or worse - if they dismiss the need to make any changes - I'd then return the machine at once. Not because I wouldn't be able to fix it - but because their support and willingness to support is abysmal - just wait until the Lever has an issue and then try to get assistance....

LM and Londinium and Kees etc. are so loved because they are willing to work with you. Heck - LM worked with me on converting my GS/3 to 220V (I was surprised - way over the call of duty) - and they had Gicar create a special version of the SW for Peppersass and myself. That is why I loath to ever replace mine. Love the machine but love the company more. Same should be for Ventus (even if they made a mistake).

Warranty would typically be voidable by the manufacturer/dealer if you even changed the fuse to a higher rating. Changing the wiring would essentially void just about any warranty on the equipment. If they can't bother to ship a machine that works from the time you get it then what else is potentially going to fail and then they left you without a warranty due to your "modifications".

For $5k you should get a machine that works, or as in the case of Peugeot, they should send a technician to you to fix it right. There are other options out there of quality for about the same price, so personally I'm not sure I would keep this one even if I did like the looks. If they gave me a huge discount after the fact I'd consider keeping it though...

AssafL wrote:You guys should try buying a French car. When you go to pick up a Peugeot - turn on the wipers - fog lights come on. Turn on fog lights - rear wipers turn on. At which point a technician will show up and fiddle behind the fuse box and turn the French car into a German masterpiece by getting the buttons to do what they ought to...

Americans gave up on French cars several decades ago. One was enough for me.

AssafL wrote:Yes - he needs to work with the manufacturer on this. If the manufacturer doesn't respond - or worse - if they dismiss the need to make any changes - I'd then return the machine at once. Not because I wouldn't be able to fix it - but because their support and willingness to support is abysmal - just wait until the Lever has an issue and then try to get assistance....

LM and Londinium and Kees etc. are so loved because they are willing to work with you. Heck - LM worked with me on converting my GS/3 to 220V (I was surprised - way over the call of duty) - and they had Gicar create a special version of the SW for Peppersass and myself. That is why I loath to ever replace mine. Love the machine but love the company more. Same should be for Ventus (even if they made a mistake).

Londinium has not been very helpful in modifying his machines at all. Good at replacement parts but not so good with modifications. And why would you need replacement parts you ask? PM me and I will be glad to explain with photos.

The secret to easy DIY wiring is to stay far away from the usual offerings and go with what I described as the 90C high grade highly flexible stranded wire. This usually shows up as a marine rated wire for use in the engine compartment and each strand may also be tin washed. In this case using this wire would allow using #14 and not have any overheating issues. Using the #12 provides a large margin to overload which is a good idea when dealing with these resistance heating elements as failures lead to overload conditions in many cases. The power cord is undersized for the load and so is the power cord chassis connector. A permanently attached power cord has several advantages. The manufacturer has an entirely different objective than the ultimate consumer. they are in opposition in regards to wiring.

FotonDrv wrote:Londinium has not been very helpful in modifying his machines at all. Good at replacement parts but not so good with modifications. And why would you need replacement parts you ask? PM me and I will be glad to explain with photos.

I thought his online presence and forums meant otherwise. I guess I am disappointed a bit.

Albeit there is a flip side to this - that helping someone modify their machine can be misinterpreted as admitting there are shortcomings to their design. An ego and self-confidence issue.

For example, LM creating an extended timer version can be misinterpreted as admitting that long preinfusion may be warranted. But in their case, the paddle version would allow for as long a preinfusion as one likes. For us they created a version just to help do the same with the AV version