I am still a bit concerned that the fuse blows. Perhaps they are using the fuse rated for 220v (lower amps)?

A 220v machine on 110v will heat very slow but won't burn a fuse.

Okay.

So I got some slow blow 250v 15a ceramic fuses today. Popped one in. Started it up.

The Ventus pulled 17.5 amps while the boiler was heating (2,104 watts on the meter). The power cord at the wall reached a temp of 80 degrees F. The temp of the cable at the power inlet was 120 degrees F. The temp of the power inlet itself was 170 degrees F at its highest temp.

Resistivity: I am only measuring at the power inlet and it's giving me an extremely high number that doesn't make sense. .620 kΩ. I looked at disassembling this to get to the heating element. Not today.

Is it possible that it's the 10amp inlet that's causing the fuse to blow? It shouldn't be getting that hot.

cizinec wrote: The Ventus pulled 17.5 amps while the boiler was heating (2,104 watts on the meter). The power cord at the wall reached a temp of 80 degrees F. The temp of the cable at the power inlet was 120 degrees F. The temp of the power inlet itself was 170 degrees F at its highest temp.

...

Is it possible that it's the 10amp inlet that's causing the fuse to blow? It shouldn't be getting that hot.

I would venture a guess that a 10A IEC inlet would not get to 170F *even* if there is a few minutes at 17.5A. Just a guess. Unless there was arcing or sparking or something involving the smell of burning plastic and eventually, fire.

But a 17.5A through a 15A (~115% load?) fuse will get it really hot. At 1R (the spec rating) a fuse carrier can get up to 75C-120C (depending on the heat conductivity of the fuse retaining clips - and according to standards). Depending on the fuse it is easily trying to get rid of about 3W (for 15A) and making the inlet hot. Ever touch a resistor dissipating 3W? (the big ones in a power amp that sit aloof of the board on ceramic pillows are dissipating in usually less and will give you a burn after a few minutes warmup).

In the Ventus manual they acknowledge the 17A you are getting. I'd spec a fuse higher than 17A. If it is a 3AG fuse the next standard fuse would be a 20A. You'd probably want a faster blowing fuse for that.

Edit: And if it were my machine I'd replace the inlet to a better rated one (just to be spec'ed correctly) and verify that the inside wiring gauge is reasonable for 17-20Amps. (there are many online lookup tables for AWG sizes and max current allowed).

Just wondering - why is the title of this thread relating to North America? The machine as reported seems to be clearly illegal in Canada - well, it could be sold in Canada for export, but not sold in Canada to a Canadian. Machines used in Canada must have a certification mark, e.g., UL, CSA (not CE, CE is not good enough), or a field certification decal, and I would guess that there is no way the machine as reported would pass inspection.

baldheadracing wrote:Just wondering - why is the title of this thread relating to North America? The machine as reported seems to be clearly illegal in Canada - well, it could be sold in Canada for export, but not sold in Canada to a Canadian.Machines used in Canada must have a certification mark, e.g., UL, CSA (not CE, CE is not good enough), or a field certification decal, and I would guess that there is no way the machine as reported would pass inspection.

It is a 110V machine. The 17A current draw proves it (a 220V machine would pull 9A at spec'ed voltage - hence half or 4.5A at 110v). Hence it was meant for the US/Canada market (or Japan).

The Quest M3 wouldn't pass certification as well. It has mains wiring directly soldered to a wiper of a non plastic potentiometer.... And very few failsafes... (not even a thermal shutoff). And I bought mine in the US.

To be clear:
- Rules in the USA are different and vary within the USA by jurisdiction, by whether there are employees, by whether federal legislation applies, etc.
- As a Canadian, I can buy a Quest or similar from outside Canada. Then, as I am the importer, I must get it inspected/certified before it gets plugged into the mains. (If one wanted to split hairs, then I wouldn't need certification if I only plugged the Quest into my own electrical generator.) However, if a Canadian firm sells me a Quest, then that firm has to get certification, or face fairly huge penalties.

(As an aside, this issue came up here a few years ago with some coffee roasting machines. While people ignore certification with electrical items, or are ignorant of the law, hooking up appliances to natural gas lines has more checks and balances.)

AssafL wrote: But a 17.5A through a 15A (~115% load?) fuse will get it really hot.

That's where I was measuring the 170F. It was right on the cover for the fuse.

Edit: And if it were my machine I'd replace the inlet to a better rated one (just to be spec'ed correctly) and verify that the inside wiring gauge is reasonable for 17-20Amps. (there are many online lookup tables for AWG sizes and max current allowed).

That's what I was afraid of. I'm rebuilding my LSM right now. I'm not in the mood to have to rewire this one that I just bought and I'm still in the time that I can send it back. I guess I'll have to really think this one through. When I hear back from Anotonio or Paulo I'll let you all know what gauge wire is inside. I have a sinking feeling, though.

cizinec wrote:That's what I was afraid of. I'm rebuilding my LSM right now. I'm not in the mood to have to rewire this one that I just bought and I'm still in the time that I can send it back. I guess I'll have to really think this one through. When I hear back from Anotonio or Paulo I'll let you all know what gauge wire is inside. I have a sinking feeling, though.

You take your chances... But reality is that the machines take the entire amperage only during warmup and occasional reheating (when pressure or temp decreases). Hence cabling will heat up but nowhere as bad as if it were 17A constant (e.g. for a space heater). So if it takes it 15 minutes to warm up the hourly duty cycle will be almost a low 25% (or average current being 4.25A). Give and take the occasional on-off cycles to maintain temp.

I said you take your chances as 15 minutes is not entirely negligible.

NB - as Jim said - if you have to replace any wire - it is only the wires that go to the heating element. So it is a simple ordeal. But the fuse must be replaced.

I don't know if it's illegal to sell the Ventus in Canada, but at this right moment, IDC has one in stock for $4 000 can.
But I couldn't say if it has the same wiring inside as the one we're talking about here.
Just to say that it is clearly possible to buy one in Canada. Is it comply to canadian rules ? That is another story.

I don't think it takes more than 7-10 minutes to heat. If I get in this thing, and doing it is not as straight forward as my LSM, i'll check and probably replace the wires to the boiler.

I'll post back with what replacement parts I'm planning to use, since I really am not sure what i should use.