Ok, I took into account all of your suggestions and the espressos have gotten better. Just wondering, how hard should it be to pull the lever?

Someone in Germany once did some calcs and they came out with about 15kg (33 pounds in American) on the lever. Not sure about the details anymore.

mthilen wrote:Ok, I took into account all of your suggestions and the espressos have gotten better. Just wondering, how hard should it be to pull the lever?

The pressure on the lever will vary but most are looking for 20-45 secs of pushing after a 5-15 sec pre infusion. If it takes 10 secs for the 1st drop to clear the spout, and you start pulling, the pressure required to get the lever all the way down in 45 sec would be your minimum pressure, and down in 20secs your max pressure. These are just seat of the pants observation, very unscientific etc...but the point (for me anyway) is to have a tactile experience with the machine/espresso so that is how I do it and no one is complaining.
BTW try not to max out a Pav, you can break it).

One other thing to note is that you can reach a point where increasing pressure will actually slow down the extraction in which case you would want to ease up a bit to allow the proper flow rate.

I'm using a bottomless pf. Even after 10 sec, I don't see any drips. But the pressure I'm applying doesn't seem excessive. Shots are coming out ok.

I have not used the older LaPavonis, only the Pro, so everything below pertains to it. Though they look the same, the group head size (49/51mm), internals (brass/plastic sleeve/piston), boiler cap with vacuum breaker built in, and two-position switch/pressurestat are just a few of the differences I know of.

- Grouphead too hot? Look at your espresso to tell. Yellow/light tan = too cold (sour shot), brown with darker speckles = bang on, dark brown and a bit stinky = too hot (burnt).

- Boiler pressure setting? .8 bar is the suggested starting point and you can tweak to suit your needs/beans. Lighter roast prefer slightly higher temps/darker prefer lower.

One poster mention 1.3 bar, cutting off the machine at .8 to pull the shots, which will work for one shot, but the excess heat generated during the .5 bar increase will find its way to the group head and will heat it up, so shots 2 - whatever will be hotter than your first. .8 bar with a single-hole tip (or with two of the original three on the standard tip blocked with toothpick pieces) will produce sufficient steam to froth enough milk for a 6 ounce cappuccino in about 30 seconds, IIRC.

- Low volume of espresso on one pull? Group head is small, so you will not get the volume I do out of my Cremina, but you should get enough for a 1.5 ounce shot. Perhaps your low volume is due to a tiny bit of false pressure not being bled off for the first shot. I say tiny because the Pro has a vacuum breaker built into the boiler cap that addresses this concern, though not fully - very nice feature!!
When warming up, after the heating element cuts off and you think it is at operating temp, open the steam valve to vent off pressure. The heating element should come on again. When it stops the second time, the boiler is at the top of the pressurestat setting, so temp-wise, the boiler is ready to go.
Now it's time to heat up the grouphead before pulling the shot or you'll end up with a light tan cup of sour espresso in your cup. To fix this, perform a warming flush. Here's how...

- Place a cup or steaming pitcher under the portafilter, lift the lever to pull water through the group and the portafilter. Do this until the water starts to flash boil (hisses). You are looking at pulling about 3 or so ounces of water. **you can use this water to heat up your cup!** Lower lever.

- Grind, dose, and tamp. Lock in your portafilter, though not fully.

- When lifting the lever, do so with the portafilter installed but not fully locked in until your reach the mid-point of your lever lift (will prevent pulling air through the puck).

- Pre-infuse for 5 - 10 seconds (listen for gurgling to stop - water rushing into the grouphead and now sitting on top of your puck). Press down a little to increase saturation of the puck until you see a few drops.

- Slowly lift the lever back up all the way and start a full pull (Fellini move). As already mentioned by I believe Michael, your pull should ramp up in pressure to a firm pull (about 30 lbs pressure((can be measured if you place the machine on a bathroom scale)) initially with the pressure slowly rolling off as you pass the mid-point of the shot. Continue the pull until the lever bottoms out or the shot blondes.

Steaming? Do so after you have pulled the shot to prevent the steamed milk from settling. Original three-hole tip is too fast and will outrun the boiler's heating element, producing wet steam and lessening your chance of getting good microfoam. Blocking at least one of the original holes will help a ton; two blocked is better, a little slower, and almost impossible not to get microfoam from. Another option is the OE single-hole tip, which is a little slower than the stock three-hole.

Sorry for the rant and random-ness, but I hope this helps.

Thanks for the help. When you say cut off the machine at .8 bar does that mean I should shut off the machine at .8 and then pull the shot or leave the machine on the whole time?

once you get more espresso insane and start tinkering like mad to perfect your shots you will "maybe want to mess with the pressure stat. This is a gizmo in with all the wiring that may or may not be adjustable on your machine....mine is al older Pav Pro so it is....By cut off I meant turn off the machine when it gets to .8....but really others are right you can steam at .8 as well...it's just a little wimpy. Can't remember what you have your Pav set at now, you have gotten lots of good info in this thread....I have learnt a bunch myself,....now go experiment.....drink too much espresso....experiment some more....drink even more espresso......with out a slightly fussy lever machine you wouldn't have such a great excuse for excessive espresso consumption.

mthilen wrote:Ok, I took into account all of your suggestions and the espressos have gotten better. Just wondering, how hard should it be to pull the lever?

When everything is dialed in properly, you should only have to apply moderate downward pressure on the lever. If you are having to really lean into it, then the grind is too fine. If the lever pushes through the shot without any back pressure, then either your tamp is not hard enough and/or the grind is too coarse.

When you are on the money, then you should feel a smooth even travel downwards, when you apply steady pressure; the flow from the portafilter should be basically constant and (if you are using a naked PF), then you should see a nice steady stream that clings up to the bottom of the basket. As you get half way down, sometimes you might want to ease up just a touch, so that you can moderate the flow rate near the end of the extraction (i.e. slow it down), or may even have to apply just a touch of extra pressure. However, throughout the entire pull, it should just feel like you are using medium downward pressure and that there is a constant back pressure on the level, but nothing which requires applying you weight into the pull. Just a nice steady, even pull that requires a little pulling down on the level, but not pulling with all your might or even all that much muscle. Medium back pressure; that's what you are shooting for.

Ray

zubinpatrick wrote:once you get more espresso insane and start tinkering like mad to perfect your shots you will "maybe want to mess with the pressure stat. This is a gizmo in with all the wiring that may or may not be adjustable on your machine....mine is al older Pav Pro so it is

The P-stat is adjustable, just don't break the ring trying to twist it or you'll be replacing it. The white stuff on the threads is glue you'll need to scrape away BEFORE trying to turn (provided you even mess with it). For now, work with it as is. Tinkering when you don't have a clue what you are doing or why your shots are not right will only have you chasing your tail as to the root cause.