I acquired a La Peppina from ebay recently and am finally getting the others are saying about how lever shots are being much sweeter than from pump machine. The shot from her is definitely much sweeter than the one pulled on my Gaggia. I am liking it very much!

However, I have a slight problem, the shots I got from her, isn't as strong/edgy as the one I pulled from Gaggia. My normal shot on Gaggia was pretty much like a punch on your face on the first sip but the shot from Peppina seems to be overall rounder and much mellower. It's less edgy and almost seems too mild. Watery front would probably be my first taste descriptor that come to mind. Normally, I would get shocked from the brightness of espresso shot at first sip from my Gaggia but this seems to be non-existent with her. The taste & aftertaste in the mouth is still pretty very complex though. So I am wondering, could this be the feature of La Pepinna?

If I were to drink them as straight shots, this very-tame but superbly sweet shots are definitely going to be on one-of-my-favourite list. However, if I were to build it into a Cappuccino/Latte, the tastes are almost gone. It doesn't stand out that much in the milk. I can't seem to get a ristretto-liked shot that is much to my liking for capps. What could possibly be the problem?

Coffee: I am sure there's no problem with the coffee. It's freshly roasted by Jeff from Redbird in less than one week. I am using 14g for the double basket yielding about less than 1.5 oz.
Grinder: Mazzer Major, Mazzer SJ, Vario, Capresso infinity. Tried them, it's the same. So it's not likely the grinder's fault.
Water: I am using Brita filter to soften the tap water. The hardness from my area is probably about 120 ppm. Could it be that the Brita made it too soft? I tried tasting water coming out from the Peppina, no weird taste, seems okay to me.
Machine: I am sure the spring is powerful enough. I even tried assisting it with tighter grind, doesn't seem to help much.
Barista: I am suspecting it's the user's error. But I couldn't find out why. The shot blonds pretty early in my opinion and the contrast between light and tiger stripe are higher than what I've seen in my Gaggia. Could it be channeling when I am doing the partial pump technique?Will the partial pump technique creates vacuum to cause hole in the puck? The shots seem to blond quite early in my opinion.

I will try to post a video soon. Thanks!

One thing to try is mega doses (19-20g) in a double basket. You'd have to coarsen your grind to maintain a reasonable flow rate. Give it a an (assisted) pull and see if you like that better.

Forgive my ignorance, but how on earth do you manage to cram 19-20 g into a La Peppina double basket ?!? 15 g seems to be the maximum for me.

Samuel,

Before you pull the shot with the La Peppina, are you doing partial pumps to load the puck with water and start the pre-infusion? I usually do about to or three partial pumps until just before I see the first drops come out of the spouts (though sometimes I'll get a few drops through. I'll then push the lever down and hold it for about ten seconds to allow the coffee to pre-infuse before letting the spring lever extract the coffee.

You can easily load up the basket with 16 grams and with a full pre-infusion should get good tasting doubles. Note, with singles, you don't want to wait the ten seconds, just load up the puck with a few partial pucks and go otherwise you'll overextract.

I have tried coffee.me's technique detailed in the What Else Tastes Like a Peppina thread of loading up the basket with a massive dose (about 19.5 g of Ritual sweettooth) and assisting the lever and I did get a very nice shot, but I've backed off from that technique. You may get a lighter, thinner shot then your Gaggia, that I think I prefer for S.O. espresso.

Enjoy playing with the La Peppina.

yakster wrote:Before you pull the shot with the La Peppina, are you doing partial pumps to load the puck with water and start the pre-infusion?

Chris,
Thanks for your detailed explanation. I did do the partial pump to load the puck with water. However, my Peppina seems to require more partial pumps than I see in the videos. This probably means my Peppina is not releasing as much water if I just let it raises for a few inches, I have to let it raise further. If I do that (ie let the lever raises further), will it create vacuum and cause channeling? Bear with me for the questions as I do not really understand the mechanism behind this nifty Peppina pump even after many readings.

I have read the "What Else Tastes Like a Peppina" thread too but I was trying to refrain from using so much coffee. On my Gaggia, I could create a ~1.75 oz intense shot with just 14g. But 14g shot in Peppina is pretty mild, even in just ~1.25 oz. My mind keeps telling me that "this can't possibly be right" to use so much coffee just to get the same intensity shot from Gaggia. I can accept it if the intensity is the same between 1.25 oz Peppina's shot and 1.75oz Gaggia's shot, naturally, due to its lower pressure. But "mild" shot in 1-1.25 oz is too much for me. It is even using slightly finer grinds than the Gaggia. My main concern now is channeling issue as I do not have a bottomless pf and I think channeling will lead to this result.

yakster wrote:Note, with singles, you don't want to wait the ten seconds, just load up the puck with a few partial pucks and go otherwise you'll overextract.

Thanks for the heads up on the single. Duly noted.

Even though this issue is bothering me somehow, she is still pulling spectacular shots. It is in a totally different league from the pump machine in term of its supremely sweet, smooth and balanced shots. The subtle chocolate taste previously in Gaggia was made even clearer by Peppina. I am enjoying espresso as straight shots much more than before than with my Gaggia. It's just that I am greedy to want to make strong shots that cuts through milks in Cappas.

In this video I was trying different things, multiple small pumpings that I see in videos instead of the usual bigger partial pump.

And I probably have let this shot went too long. But at that time I was busy with the iphone and the volume was just 1 oz (30ml) when it blonded. Still, blonding at 1 oz just don't seem right to me. Maybe I should pump more water before fully release the lever?

I'll not comment on technique but will tell you what I know about LaPep's pressure. An unassisted pull, at peak brew circuit capacity (i.e. max possible unassisted), delivers a brew pressure starting at 6Bar and quickly declining to 4Bar -- then to 2 & 0; those are numbers I measured myself. That's WAY different than the brew pressure profile on your other machine(or at least should be).

I assist the lever, but I also have a brew pressure gauge installed and profile the pull exactly how I want it to be. Some here go by feel when they assist the lever and they post positively about doing so.

This thought might help: I could never make my rotary HX, modded for true pressure profiling, produce similar shots to the ones I get from my LaPep and it's all detailed in that thread you read. Maybe you could get better shots from your LaPep, but keep an open mind about what to expect from it. New seals might give you a better functioning machine. Technique changes might widen your experience with your new toy. But the bottom line is that the two machines will probably have different sweet spots for beans & technique.

Sorry for the long response, I think I'm over caffeinated & hungry

samuellaw178 wrote:I did do the partial pump to load the puck with water. However, my Peppina seems to require more partial pumps than I see in the videos. This probably means my Peppina is not releasing as much water if I just let it raises for a few inches, I have to let it raise further. If I do that (ie let the lever raises further), will it create vacuum and cause channeling? Bear with me for the questions as I do not really understand the mechanism behind this nifty Peppina pump even after many readings.

I wouldn't worry too much about having to let the lever raise up further. I let it raise up probably 1/3 of it's travel for the partial pumps to load the puck. The hydraulic system on the La Peppina uses two simple flapper valves (rubber washers) to prevent flow in the wrong direction. The one below the kettle lets the water draw into the cylinder when you push down the lever and the one above the dispersion screen lets the water flow out of the group while the kettle flapper valve is held shut to prevent the water from returning to the kettle. It's worth looking in the kettle to see if you see much water flowing back in and also the rebuild guide at Orphan Espresso is invaluable and understanding how this works. The condition of these washers and the seals can affect how much water flows and how many pumps you need to do. Nowadays, when I fire up my La Peppina, I need to do many pumps to get water to flow so I think it's time for a rebuild.

samuellaw178 wrote:I have read the "What Else Tastes Like a Peppina" thread too but I was trying to refrain from using so much coffee. On my Gaggia, I could create a ~1.75 oz intense shot with just 14g. But 14g shot in Peppina is pretty mild, even in just ~1.25 oz. My mind keeps telling me that "this can't possibly be right" to use so much coffee just to get the same intensity shot from Gaggia. I can accept it if the intensity is the same between 1.25 oz Peppina's shot and 1.75oz Gaggia's shot, naturally, due to its lower pressure. But "mild" shot in 1-1.25 oz is too much for me. It is even using slightly finer grinds than the Gaggia. My main concern now is channeling issue as I do not have a bottomless pf and I think channeling will lead to this result.

I think that the narrow (45 mm) and deeper basket of the La Peppina helps to avoid channeling, but not having a bottomless portafilter either, I can't say for sure. You can always try longer pre-infusion or assisting the lever to increase the pressure if you want a thicker shot, but you may surprise yourself and grow to really like the different shot the La Peppina gives.

samuellaw178 wrote:Thanks for the heads up on the single. Duly noted.

No problem, I'm one who loves to pull singles and I had a hard time at first trying to pull a good one. Yesterday I pulled six shots on my Gaggia Factory, I couldn't drink that many doubles, but it's doable with singles. BTW: I learned pulling a single on the Gaggia Factory is a totally different animal due to the pressurized boiler, I ended up shortening the boiler fill time to about four seconds for singles for now.

samuellaw178 wrote:Even though this issue is bothering me somehow, she is still pulling spectacular shots. It is in a totally different league from the pump machine in term of its supremely sweet, smooth and balanced shots. The subtle chocolate taste previously in Gaggia was made even clearer by Peppina. I am enjoying espresso as straight shots much more than before than with my Gaggia. It's just that I am greedy to want to make strong shots that cuts through milks in Cappas.

That's great, I really enjoy the straight shots on the La Peppina. I'm not much of a Cap drinker, but will occasionally make one for the Wife or company.

As for the video you uploaded, the technique looked pretty good to me, as far as I could tell. I say that you just need more practice and make sure to enjoy the homework.

Looking at your video it looks like you're having to do rather a lot of pulls to get any amount of water through. This could be due to the 2 washers not being seated nicely or the washers being old and a bit hard. Have you replaced the seals and washers at all? Those 2 washers are fiddly. They have to be sitting just right and have enough flexibility to allow the water past them. Are you getting water coming back up into the kettle? There's a really good rebuild guide on the OE site;
http://www.orphanespresso.com/LA-PEPPIN...540-1.html
See the addendum at the bottom of the page as it's simplest to check the small washer in the group first.
In terms of the taste, I also find the shots to be lighter and I suppose less syrupy than what I'm used to from the Caravels. Still delicious but different.

*EDIT* sorry. Looks like Yakster covered it all while I was writing.

samgiles wrote:Looking at your video it looks like you're having to do rather a lot of pulls to get any amount of water through. This could be due to the 2 washers not being seated nicely or the washers being old and a bit hard. Have you replaced the seals and washers at all? Those 2 washers are fiddly. They have to be sitting just right and have enough flexibility to allow the water past them. Are you getting water coming back up into the kettle?

I am aware about the harden washer issues that could cause the water going back to the kettle. So far, I have not seen water going from group back to the kettle. If it were going back to the kettle, the water would be slightly brown in color, am I right?

I've just finish reading the OE's rebuild guide carefully. I've found that guide prior to this but just skimmed through them. That was because I assumed my Peppina doesn't need a rebuild anytime soon and the info there seems to take a while to digest.

One pump from my Peppina yields about 1 oz (30 ml). I've read other Peppinas yield 45 ml average on HB. With about 2-3 partial pumps, I could easily get about 80-100ml. Do you think I need to replace the washer etc at the moment? I checked the OE's site, the total rebuild set costs about $20 shipped. It isn't that expensive compared to what I've expected. Just that I probably don't have time to do it now if it's not necessary.

yakster wrote:That's great, I really enjoy the straight shots on the La Peppina. I'm not much of a Cap drinker, but will occasionally make one for the Wife or company.

As for the video you uploaded, the technique looked pretty good to me, as far as I could tell. I say that you just need more practice and make sure to enjoy the homework.

I too, ain't that much of a Cap drinker. Just some occasional Caps for me. But the people around me only drinks coffee with milk in it. So, it's always nice to be able to make them great Cappas that's even better than the cafes. And of course, my girlfriend really like my Cap too. It's the best Cappuccino she had in her life, says her. That was with the Gaggia though