Stupid Lever Question - One pull or multiple ?

by **2xlp** on Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:05 am

Stupid lever question:

I don't have a lever, but have considered picking up an olympia should i ever come across one at a good price.

Looking at some videos online of people's extractions, I've noticed the following things:

Some machines seem to extract on the upswing of the lever. ie: , you pull down, and then a spring pushes the lever back up at a constant rate.

Some machines seem to extract on the downswing of the lever. You pull down and water comes out.

Some machines seem to extract on the downswing of the lever. You pull down and water comes out - but you might need to 'pump' the lever down several times.

I could be wrong on this - this is just me inferring how these machines work off of videos posted online. Is there a compendium anywhere of the kinds of lever machines and how they pull ?

by **mattwells** on Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:27 am

Lever shopper here, so take what I say with a grain of salt - I don't have experience with anything but a Pavoni.

There are two different types of lever machines - a spring lever system (Ponte Vecchio, et al.) and a direct lever system (Pavoni, Cremina, et al.).

With the spring lever, the handle starts in the 'up' position, you pull down and that 'cocks' the spring. When you let go the spring provides constant pressure and the lever returns up.

With the direct system the handle starts 'down.' You pull the handle up and then you control the pressure by pulling down on the lever.

I don't know what you mean by 'pump the lever up and down' - I have never seen that. Most shots do require more than one pull of the lever, though.

/mw

by **bill** on Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:55 am

2xlp wrote:Stupid lever question:

I don't have a lever, but have considered picking up an olympia should i ever come across one at a good price.

Looking at some videos online of people's extractions, I've noticed the following things:

Some machines seem to extract on the upswing of the lever. ie: , you pull down, and then a spring pushes the lever back up at a constant rate.

Some machines seem to extract on the downswing of the lever. You pull down and water comes out.

Some machines seem to extract on the downswing of the lever. You pull down and water comes out - but you might need to 'pump' the lever down several times.

No such thing as a 'stupid' question. There are two type of lever machines. Some, i.e., Pavoni, Cremina, are fully manual. In these the operator raises the lever which in turn raises the piston in the group allowing hot water from the boiler to enter. Lowering the lever pushes the piston down and hot water thru the coffee. Other machines, i.e., Elektra, use a spring to push the water thru the coffee. In these machines the operator lowers the lever which raises the piston, compresses the spring and lets water in the group. Releasing the lever allows the spring to push the piston down.
Some operators of both types of machines do repeat this operation more then once to push more water thru the coffee and obtain a larger shot of espresso. This is always optional. Hope this helps.

by **timo888** on Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:28 am

Buy a Ponte Vecchio Lusso for now, while you're waiting for a Cremina, then sell the PV to me at a steep discount. I'd like to have both kinds of machine

Regards
Timo

by **timo888** on Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:38 am

mattwells wrote:Most shots do require more than one pull of the lever, though.

A single pull on my Cremina can produce a generous single or a double ristretto.

When pulling twice, my technique is as follows, which seems to work quite well:

-- lift the lever slowly to allow the water to hit the puck gently at first, and then, when the lever reaches the top of its arc, the water will hit the puck with the boiler's full pressure, which pushes the water deeper into the puck. Don't rush. This is languid.

-- depress the lever gently till the first few drops are visible in the cup; this saturates the puck for preinfusion

-- linger with the lever in this position for the desired preinfusion time

-- raise the lever again all the way to the top of its arc; again, no need to rush this motion

-- pull down slowly and firmly to completion

Regards
Timo

by **carrie kennedy** on Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:35 pm

Hi,
I've enjoyed my new PV Lusso I purchased from Vaneli's. It's been a month and I am pulling some great shots. I watched Peacecup's video and he does three pulls and gets a double, I believe - (not including his pre-infusion pull.) I can get a nice 2 oz double with two pulls, but I do three just to stretch it out a bit more for my latte. I guess I would be drinking a lungo? I dont get any blonding, though.
Good luck
C

by **timo888** on Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:22 pm

carrie kennedy wrote:Hi,
I've enjoyed my new PV Lusso I purchased from Vaneli's. It's been a month and I am pulling some great shots. I watched Peacecup's video and he does three pulls and gets a double, I believe - (not including his pre-infusion pull.) I can get a nice 2 oz double with two pulls, but I do three just to stretch it out a bit more for my latte. I guess I would be drinking a lungo? I dont get any blonding, though.
Good luck
C

On my Cremina, with the p-stat lowered, water does not erupt into the piston chamber, but takes more time to fill it. The length of time I leave the lever raised has an effect upon the amount of water that enters the chamber. If I immediately lower the lever after raising it to its full height, the piston chamber is not yet full. Does holding the Lusso's lever down for different lengths of time have a similar effect on water volume?

Regards
Timo

by **peacecup** on Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:07 am

Hi,
I've enjoyed my new PV Lusso I purchased from Vaneli's. It's been a month and I am pulling some great shots. I watched Peacecup's video and he does three pulls and gets a double, I believe - (not including his pre-infusion pull.) I can get a nice 2 oz double with two pulls,

The volume in the cup depends on the fineness of the grind as well as the dose (fullness of the basket). I grind fine and dose full (15 g) double baskets, and I only get 0.5 oz per lever pull - I usually take two or three pulls, lately mostly two. These result in very rich ristrettos (15g per oz is a high coffee:water ratio).

The Ponte Vecchio group has a small vent hole near the top on the boiler side - when the lever is pulled down with a full portafiler once can hear air escaping as water fills the piston chamber. The longer the lever is held down the more water enters the group - the speed at which it fills is affected by boiler pressure.

I use a "Fellini" pre-infusion lever pull technique, first described on HB by Dr. Jim - this is a full downward pull to allow water to enter the group, followed immediately by a partial raise of the lever to force this water into the puck. The lever is then pulled to the bottom again for a traditional pre-infusion. The whole process takes approx. 10 sec, the commonly cited pre-infusion time. In my opinion, the Fellini pull results in a more complete pre-infusion, and therefore a more even extraction. To illustrate just how finely I normally grind, I never see a drop of coffee in the cup during the entire pre-infusion - if I do I usually grind finer the next time.

I have often wondered how the differing pressure profiles of multiple vs. single pulls affect flavor in the cup, but I have never had a chance to use a lever with a larger group. I can say that I prefer the flavor of my home-brew to the VAST majority of espresso I get in cafes, even by some well-qualified baristas. Therefore I conclude that multiple pulls can't hurt too much....

PC

by **timo888** on Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:18 am

peacecup wrote:The longer the lever is held down the more water enters the group - the speed at which it fills is affected by boiler pressure.

What is the volume of the PV group when it is filled to capacity?

Regards
Timo

by **peacecup** on Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:56 pm

Good question - since I've heard others say they get 1 oz per pull, I'll assume its an oz. Next time I have the dispersion screen off I'll measure the depth and diameter for a closer approximation.

PC


Contact Us	Legal disclaimer and copyright: This content and all its parts are copyrighted, all rights reserved. Content including all text and images in part or in whole may not be reproduced in any electronic or printed medium without prior permission. Home-Barista, Home-Barista.com and related logos are trademarks of Home-Barista.com, LLC. Other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. By accessing this site, you agree to the terms of service. Overall speed: fast, current page: 0.7s, avg: 0.5s, max: 1.5s