I've been looking at the used La Peppina and an old Cimbali, both utilizing a spring when pilling a shot. Other devices (La Pavoni...) do not utilize a spring and rely upon the barista for the complete pull. I was wondering if you loose any of the barista control when you go with a spring assisted lever? Basically, can the quality of your shot diminish bedcause you've given up a little bit of the control and you can do it better? Anybody have an opinion on this?

You won't know what's best for you until you try both There!

I've got a trusty La Peppina (on a PID) and a new-to-me Gaggia Factory (fancy La Pavoni Pro), but I don't have enough arm time on the Gaggia to really compare the two yet.

With the La Peppina, you can have very stable temperature control with the simple addition of a PID or a router controller because of it's open kettle and I think having a spring to start makes it easy to learn to love the lever. The La Peppina is not a steamer, though, so you've got to love the straight espresso or make other arrangements. Yes, I'm ignoring the fact that there is a ventilator lid for the La Peppina that can no only steam milk but give you a hot water tap, but the actual use of this gadget just doesn't work out in real life.

I opted for the Gaggia to find out what I'm missing and get my hands on a full manual lever where I can have instant feedback on the feel of the pull. You can "help" the lever of the La Peppina along to increase the pressure and hold it back for pre-infusion, etc. but I really like the spring profile on the La Peppina so I hesitate to do this. The Gaggia also gives me a steam wand. I think the manual lever will prove more challenging, but I'm in a place right now where I'm ready for a challenge. The pair will look good on my sideboard with the Vario once I get done refinishing it.



Maybe the ultimate combination of all these wants is the EspressoStietman ES1 which has an open kettle, a steam wand, and a manual lever. I'll be following the progress and future development on this one with interest.

There are two potential benefits of a spring-lever:

1. Repeatable pull pressure provided by a spring - instead of the potentially inconsistent pressure you apply.
2. Ability to do something else while the spring is pushing water through the coffee... Like steam milk.

I have both a spring and two manual levers, and I do love the involvement with a manual lever, but the convenience and repeatability of the spring make it my go to machine when I'll be making cappuccinos.

I like my La Pavoni. Being able to control the pressure profile, as it were, is very nice. A spring is really just a mechanical pump in large part I think. You might as well just get a 15 bar pump and push a button. I think you lose a lot of feel and control when you turn over complete control to the machine.

With that said, I have never operated a spring machine, but from what I gather, you basically compress the spring with a lever, then your part is done right?

Ray

It's a bit more involved then just compressing the spring and letting go, as there's some technique involved in the draw-down and pre-infusion that really affect the outcome. I'd say it's pretty far from push-button. Also, it's very quiet and the declining pressure curve is said to give spring levers their sought after profile that pressure profilers are trying to imitate.

That said, I think that there's a valid argument to be made that the next step in involvement is going fully manual and providing the pressure profile by hand. It is much more challenging to be able to dial in a routine and be able to repeat it with good results time after time, but the muscle memory involved and the feedback you get take it beyond the intellectual into a physical connection with the process.

That's my theory, anyway. You have to decide which camp you fall into, or maybe you get one of each or get the one that's a good deal at the time. You will need a backup machine for the times when your going to tear down one lever and change the gaskets. If your not handy and you decide to have someone else perform the periodic maintenance, you should have a backup so your not without espresso then.

I have a two group Astoria Lever, and a La Pavoni Europiccola from the late '70's. I love them both. For me, which one I use depends on what how interested I am in drinking espresso, vs. how much of me is interested in creating espresso.

I believe that most lever enthusiasts are machine junkies, and as such most of us can appreciate each kind of machine. Which one is "best" is impossible to say. Still, if I were tied to a chair and forced to say which I (I) prefer, I've gotta choose the spring operated commercial lever.

My Pavoni is much more sexy than my giant brushed stainless 180 pound Astoria, and the Pavoni is sensible for my kitchen countertop, whereas Astoria lives out on the patio, where it's plumbed in, and ready to go most of the time.

The Pavoni is more rewarding to get good results from than the Astoria is. This is because of the Pavoni's steep learning curve. Still, the tactile feel and visual treat of the Astoria's lever group with naked PF is also pleasing. Being able to steam while extracting is a solid advantage for the Astoria, as is its ability to be plumbed in.

There's no dust on my Pavoni machine. I use it in combination with my Hario hand crank grinder with excellent results. However, I do so after I've already had a cup, because I get better results from the Pavoni when I'm reasonably awake.

In short, don't worry about it. Brew temperature, shape of filter basket, etc. will have greater effect on the results.

The main practical issue is alluded to above - can you "help" it? If you can, then you can rescue a marginally choked shot. You won't need that often, hopefully.

RayJohns wrote:I like my La Pavoni. Being able to control the pressure profile, as it were, is very nice. A spring is really just a mechanical pump in large part I think. You might as well just get a 15 bar pump and push a button

Ray - you need to get your hands on a spring lever. I like my Pavoni too, but this comment is a little on the ignorant side. How long you preinfuse, how many pulls/half pulls you make and what point in the lever stroke you do this is completely up to you. As mentioned above, the classic gentle, declining pressure profile is precisely the reason why spring levers come into in their own. Very different to a pump.

I used to think that "feeling" the coffee was a key ingredient in my pursuit of espresso pleasure. And indeed it is fun to be hands on. But what I now seek is that winning pressure profile to be the same/consistent every time. That means that I can focus my efforts entirely on the coffee; the grind, the dose, the origin, the roast - and not the machine itself. It should be about the coffee, and the kit fades into the background. Understandably not always easy when the kit itself can cost a small fortune.

ziobeege_72 wrote:Ray - you need to get your hands on a spring lever. I like my Pavoni too, but this comment is a little on the ignorant side. How long you preinfuse, how many pulls/half pulls you make and what point in the lever stroke you do this is completely up to you. As mentioned above, the classic gentle, declining pressure profile is precisely the reason why spring levers come into in their own. Very different to a pump.

I used to think that "feeling" the coffee was a key ingredient in my pursuit of espresso pleasure. And indeed it is fun to be hands on. But what I now seek is that winning pressure profile to be the same/consistent every time. That means that I can focus my efforts entirely on the coffee; the grind, the dose, the origin, the roast - and not the machine itself. It should be about the coffee, and the kit fades into the background. Understandably not always easy when the kit itself can cost a small fortune.

Good to know!

It's interesting that you mention the declining pressure profile of the spring. I have found on my La Pavoni that if I back off on the amount of downward pressure (once I start get into the extraction), it actually seem to increase the flow and quality of the shot.

Ray