As I've never used a spring lever, I'm wondering (versus a manual lever) the strength needed to initiate the pull on a spring lever...that is, the downward pull before releasing the lever for it's spring assisted journey back up.
Would the force needed be equal to, less than or the same as the force downward I use with my Cremina?
TIA

I have heard tell that some folks use enough force on a manual lever to tear a rotator cuff, blow an elbow, or break wind, if not all 3. If we knew how much force you use, then a comparison could be made, possibly. We have a friend who when selling something on ebay never measured it but always said it was exactly the same size as on the screen....minor detail it was only his screen that he was viewing.

But from having used about a dozen different spring levers and a Cremina, I would say that the force required to pull the lever down on a spring is far less than is used on a manual lever....particularly if you have a Conti with all of the rollers and force multipliers in the group. A commercial lever is much longer as well and can be used with either arm also as it is just the pull and release, and it has a stop at the bottom where it stays until you release it so it does not need to be held down (like with a PV or Elektra for example).
Commercial lever, RJ? Beats pushing a button, but that is just an opinion.

IMAWriter wrote:As I've never used a spring lever, I'm wondering (versus a manual lever) the strength needed to initiate the pull on a spring lever...that is, the downward pull before releasing the lever for it's spring assisted journey back up.
Would the force needed be equal to, less than or the same as the force downward I use with my Cremina?
TIA

In my opinion most of those using manual levers are exceeding the force that the machines were designed to use. Even with the lighter touch I have used with the Caravel and the Cremina both the Peppina (home) and the Termazona (commercial spring) use much less force than the hand levers and over a much smaller period of time.

I agree with Hal. I find that with the proper grind for the Cremina and LaPav I am putting just slightly over the weight of my arm onto the lever. That is probably about 20-30#. So there is no reason to abuse yourself or your machine by giving the lever a 40-60 pound pressure. The big Conti spring lever takes about 35# to break tension but then that lowers with the lever in motion. The difference, I think, being that the Conti has a larger piston to push.
Time for a Yerhg!
-Richard

The force required to pull down a manual lever varies, depending upon dose | grind | tamp. But a domestic spring lever and a manual spring lever are roughly comparable in terms of arm muscle. However, the spring lever requires the barista to have much greater intelligence and good looks than a manual lever requires.

timo888 wrote:
[snipped]
However, the spring lever requires the barista to have much greater intelligence and good looks than a manual lever requires.

hahahahahaha
Timo, FYI I have an honorary Doctorate from an elementary school, pal.
OK, in answer to an above question regarding force, I believe I'm around 35#'s, and if I try a 1/4 pull "Fellini" thing, the lever will get stuck when I re-raise then attempt to lower the lever, unless I grind to salt consistency. This occurs with both the Vario and manual grinder.
I tamp (mostly) at 15#'s. No squirts, 30 second pulls for 1.5oz, etc.
And YES, I had a PREVIOUSLY injured rotator cuff, which usually occurs with folks who get off their butt and exercise once in a while, DOUG, instead of laying around drinking copious amounts of espresso all day.
But I mean that in a good way.

Sounds as though you tend to overdose and pull ristretto.

timo888 wrote:Sounds as though you tend to overdose and pull ristretto.

Timo, if 1.5oz from a Cremina with a 13.5 to 14 gram load at 30 seconds(including a 6 second hold at the top) qualifies as a ristretto, so be it! BTW, there is still a 2mm clearance between the top of my dry puck and the lip of the basket.
I always thought my 9 gram in a single basket .75oz pulls were ristretto pours, based on coffee amount, versus liquid produced. Truthfully, I'm not quite sure what constitutes a "strict" ristretto pour, if there is such a thing.

Rob are you saying it chokes after your 1/4 pull?

I've just had a very nice Italian party day, so there's plenty of Prosecco to account for, but I'm not sure what you mean gets stuck.

I find the force required to lower the Elektra MCaL not vastly different from the manuals, though I;ve never really thought about it much...

Cheers

Mike