L.S.

I've been using an isomac zaffiro for very long now, and since i'll be moving from my parents, i'll have to leave this one.

If I want to continue roasting, grinding and making espresso, I'll need a new machine.
Now my question is: will a la pavoni europiccola for example suffice for this?
I'd like to work with a lever machine, but I'm a bit scared off by the temperature stability, and the difficulty of pulling a great shot of espresso.

So can I after maybe a few months/weeks of practice make espresso's like I do now (one or two in the morning, one or two in the afternoon?), or is it more advisable to buy a rancilio silvia for example?

I hope you can advise me before I waste money on a La Pavoni.

You won't be "wasting" money On a La Pavoni...however, as one who has used a HX machine for over 4 years, I can say there is a bit of a learning curve, but in my opinion less than you'd think...basically by reading the numerous super quality, informative threads here (skip mine...I'm a noob...or maybe in some way, you'll feel better about yourself )
I pulled a quality shot by the 4th or 5th one...it NEVER would have happened without the wealth of info here.
There are dozens of threads devoted to the Pavoni...including those about the newer machines called "Millenium"
However, there are differences in the profiles, but taste and mouth-feel between a pump machine and a manual. There are even threads here that discuss in detail THAT topic!
Please utilize these resources...you will then be armed with the knowledge you need to make your decision.
Good luck!

I've never used a Europiccola, but it's my belief that a spring lever machine like a Ponte Vecchio Export, Lusso, or Elektra Microcasa a Leva, is a much better machine than a Silvia, for the following reasons:

1) On a lever, you can pull shots and steam without waiting (simultaneously on a spring lever).

2) longevity - fewer parts in a lever, and they seem to get used for years and years, rather than get upgraded from after a year or 2.

3) It seems that it is easier to pull a good shot from a lever than from a machine like a Silvia/Gaggia.


Mark

I owned a Rancilio for years and PID'd it... I was thoroughly impressed with the machine as it made just what I wanted out of it. I got into triple baskets and really enjoyed making 'caps' with it. I tried a La Pavoni 1st... I by no means sold my Silvia right away. Only after a year or so with the Pavonis did I begin to consider getting rid of Miss Silvia.
Perhaps you should get a machine you know you are going to be happy with and then at some point in the future when you want an adventure... go for a Pavoni... You can get used ones on EBay for around $200.00.

TUS172 wrote:I owned a Rancilio for years and PID'd it... I was thoroughly impressed with the machine as it made just what I wanted out of it. I got into triple baskets and really enjoyed making 'caps' with it. I tried a La Pavoni 1st... I by no means sold my Silvia right away. Only after a year or so with the Pavonis did I begin to consider getting rid of Miss Silvia.
Perhaps you should get a machine you know you are going to be happy with and then at some point in the future when you want an adventure... go for a Pavoni... You can get used ones on EBay for around $200.00.

Not really well maintained used ones...
But Bob C is offering good advice...I love my HX Anita....especially since installing Eric's thermometer probe...easy to do $69 at Chris Coffee.
If steaming and pulling at the same time is your desire, most HX machines will do you well.

IMAWriter wrote:Not really well maintained used ones...

I have been buying and selling used espresso machines on Ebay for 3 years now. Of the 8 or so La Pavonis that I've bought I have never paid more than 210.00 and have gotten them as low as 150.00. The ones that needed service were obvious and the seller usually will say so.
If the product is not as advertised and you have used PayPal you can dispute the seller's representation and get the needed adjustment. If the seller has a good feedback and has sold a number of items on EBay they are usually more than willing to settle any kind of dispute. Especially when Paypal freezes funds in their account due to the dispute. I always use Papal for that very reason.
The bottom line is that for around $200.00 you can get a good used La Pavoni on EBay. Just be careful, ask questions, use PayPal and go with a seller that has a good rep...

Eric,

The other forista might overlook you are moving out from your parents'. So you might be on a student's budget now?
To me, the main starting question is, what grinder will you use? If it is not so good, you may not need advice on a good espresso machine at all.
As IMAwriter mentioned, many of the issues have already been treated in this site.
It should not be too difficult to find a discussion on the rituals of different lever machines needed to get real good coffee. My understanding is it is in the timing from switching on as they slowly get hotter. That could mean you might end up switching on, waiting/timing between each of your 4 cups a day. But then, leverologists might have a ritual for having the second coffee in the morning at the proper temperature as well.
The second starting question is really if you would do (frequent) milk drinks, in which case you might want to skip on single boiler non-HX espresso machines (when also regarding pump machines).

Regards
Peter
Netherlands
Europe

CafSuperCharged wrote:Eric,

The other forista might overlook you are moving out from your parents'. So you might be on a student's budget now?
To me, the main starting question is, what grinder will you use? If it is not so good, you may not need advice on a good espresso machine at all.
As IMAwriter mentioned, many of the issues have already been treated in this site.
It should not be too difficult to find a discussion on the rituals of different lever machines needed to get real good coffee. My understanding is it is in the timing from switching on as they slowly get hotter. That could mean you might end up switching on, waiting/timing between each of your 4 cups a day. But then, leverologists might have a ritual for having the second coffee in the morning at the proper temperature as well.
The second starting question is really if you would do (frequent) milk drinks, in which case you might want to skip on single boiler non-HX espresso machines (when also regarding pump machines).

Regards
Peter
Netherlands
Europe

Great advice from Peter...as an owner of a really good HX machine (Heat exchanger E61 group) I most wholeheartedly that if you enjoy milk drinks a HX is a good choice...not that the experienced lever person (I am not) probably does just as well. I underline the word Experience

As you can see in my profile I own both a lever and a HX. I find it easier to make a really good cup on the HX, the lever is finicky (you really need a very good grinder and technique, I find that the margins of error are smaller than with an HX). I bought the lever, new, on Ebay for € 220, so it can be done! I think my lever is beautiful, it can make very tasty espresso, but is a little difficult, and overheating is an issue.
However, I bought my HX on Marktplaats for only € 375 (plus grinder), so there are very good deals to make! Just look for the less common names (so don't look for the Domobar). I have to admit, that 90% of the time I use the HX, just because it is more convenient (and use of a triple basket!).

if it is only because of the price: think again. If you like a lever: go ahead!

TUS172 wrote:I have been buying and selling used espresso machines on Ebay for 3 years now. Of the 8 or so La Pavonis that I've bought I have never paid more than 210.00 and have gotten them as low as 150.00. The ones that needed service were obvious and the seller usually will say so.
If the product is not as advertised and you have used PayPal you can dispute the seller's representation and get the needed adjustment. If the seller has a good feedback and has sold a number of items on EBay they are usually more than willing to settle any kind of dispute. Especially when Paypal freezes funds in their account due to the dispute. I always use Papal for that very reason.
The bottom line is that for around $200.00 you can get a good used La Pavoni on EBay. Just be careful, ask questions, use PayPal and go with a seller that has a good rep...

The bulk of used europiccola's I see go for more than $200 (in the 250 and up range), but i agree that once in a while you can find one but they usually have some sort of issue with them. I got mine for around $200 but it had not filter basket and no drip tray (drip tray ~20, basket ~20). I think one needs to know what makes these things tick and how much the parts will cost you to fix so that one know the actual final value.

Check CG, someone usually sells theirs there ....