Just interested is some feedback from other users of Spring Lever machines on Pre infusion and Pour times you tend to use and if you vary them much from bean to bean?

Mine generally 7-10 seconds of Pre Infusion before kicking the lever up, shots then finish up around the 50 second mark total or a shot time of 40 seconds I like it a lot better than the 25-30 second type of pumped machine pour.

Part of the reason for this is I just choked a shot which would have been over a minute and it tastes great

I have had some 40 to 50 second shots too that have tasted okay but I think it's more to do with pot luck than a consistent regime. Most times they have been puckerface bitter. Baristically speaking, with the right grind a 22 to 25 second pour time gives consistently excellent shots but 30 is about there too. 7 to 10 seconds pre infusion also.

I think there are some lever 50 second adherents here somewhere but they be beans in a hay stack - so to speak.

Should also mention I am running triple shot 18g Syneeso baskets for double shot pours with the Fioranzato at present. If I am getting dribbles before the end of PI, shots tend to run 20-25 seconds and taste underextracted.

I pre-infuse till the 1st drops are visible on the base of the basket (about 8 seconds), and then let the lever run under spring pressure.

From that point, if it takes another 22-28 second for the lever to return to the home postion, I know Im in the ballpark.

This is with a double basket (around 16 gms), and La Pavoni Pub Leva.

I have occasioanlly had a good espresso from a somewhat 'choked' shot that will run out to 40 seconds(ish), but these are infrequent enough that I don't go chasing them, and I consider them a happy accident.

Deano.

I pre-infuse long, probably almost 10 seconds. I probably have come to watch the handle as much as the pour, to know if I've got the grind where I want it. I love the idea of leaving the handle down until you can see the center wet, but I don't have a bottomless. When I bought the machine, the instructions I received were to pre-infuse until the first drops come out, but I don't think the shop owner has ever used fresh coffee.

I have found that the extraction time I find best depends mainly upon degree of roast then on the bean or blend. Most of the coffees I use are roasted in the full city range. I usually do about a ten second active pre-infusion until I see drops followed by a 30-40 pull (2 half pulls on the Club) depending on the bean or blend. Coffees in the Vienna or darker range I usually do a shorter 8 second pre-infusion until I see drops and a 20 to 30 second pull depending on the bean or blend.

On both my Cremina and Club (Europiccola and Factory as well) I rarely get bitter shot even when the shot nearly chokes the machine--unless the machine has gotten too hot. I just stop the shot early at the first sign of blonding. Longer pulls on these machines seem more full bodied and sweet, not to mention intense, at the expense of complexity and brightness. It is fun to try out a bean or blend at different pull times to see where it expresses best.

Mine seem cold and lifeless if they go too slow. Commercial lever, always on.

I thought about it while pulling one this morning, after reading this thread last night. I had no real idea how long my shots normally run, I look at the flow rather than elapsed time, because: no clock with second hand. But I counted my way through it, 20-30 seconds. I didn't count during preinfusion. I usually wait for drops, but think sometimes the results are better if I don't.

I vary preinfusion times from bean to bean but also depending on my mood/what sort of a shot I want in terms of taste profile as well as ristretto/normale/lungo etc., which will also depend on the bean and style and freshness of the roast. Anything from around 2 to 3 seconds to 8 or even 10 on the preinfusion front.

The shot time also varies depending both on the above and on the machine. On my manual levers I might decide to up the pressure for a tight grind/high dose, whereas on my spring lever, I might either not push things to this extreme or find I get surprisingly good results letting the shot take an age to dribble through. Generally - superglooper ristrettos apart - I look for a very slow start that transitions to a steady flow and solid cone thereafter

There are just so many variables, which is why we just have to get the feel - but that's in the long run, being the fruit of successful experience. I still reckon that talking around 8 seconds preinfusion and 25-30 for the shot is a good starting point.

Cheers

Mike

michaelbenis wrote:I vary preinfusion times from bean to bean but also depending on my mood/what sort of a shot I want in terms of taste profile as well as ristretto/normale/lungo etc., which will also depend on the bean and style and freshness of the roast. Anything from around 2 to 3 seconds to 8 or even 10 on the preinfusion front.

The shot time also varies depending both on the above and on the machine. On my manual levers I might decide to up the pressure for a tight grind/high dose, whereas on my spring lever, I might either not push things to this extreme or find I get surprisingly good results letting the shot take an age to dribble through. Generally - superglooper ristrettos apart - I look for a very slow start that transitions to a steady flow and solid cone thereafter

There are just so many variables, which is why we just have to get the feel - but that's in the long run, being the fruit of successful experience. I still reckon that talking around 8 seconds preinfusion and 25-30 for the shot is a good starting point.

Cheers

Mike

The post that precisely defines the quintessential nature of the silent lever. Very well said Michael.

michaelbenis wrote:I vary preinfusion times from bean to bean but also depending on my mood/what sort of a shot I want in terms of taste profile as well as ristretto/normale/lungo etc., which will also depend on the bean and style and freshness of the roast. Anything from around 2 to 3 seconds to 8 or even 10 on the preinfusion front.

The shot time also varies depending both on the above and on the machine. On my manual levers I might decide to up the pressure for a tight grind/high dose, whereas on my spring lever, I might either not push things to this extreme or find I get surprisingly good results letting the shot take an age to dribble through. Generally - superglooper ristrettos apart - I look for a very slow start that transitions to a steady flow and solid cone thereafter

There are just so many variables, which is why we just have to get the feel - but that's in the long run, being the fruit of successful experience. I still reckon that talking around 8 seconds preinfusion and 25-30 for the shot is a good starting point.

Cheers

Mike

Fantastic answer. This more accurately describes my approach as well only more elegantly stated. You have condensed and well articulated the ideal to shoot for. Great job!