Well I played around with a finer grind today, along with a slightly heavier tamp. The results so far are encouraging. I need to play around some more, but right off the bat, the color of my shots pulled today were richer and deeper red, and also exhibited a deeper layer of crema. The stream did not coalesce into a single stream until about almost 2/3 of the way through the shot though (perhaps 17 or 18 seconds into the shot). Even then it seemed to spiral a tiny bit initially before settling down to a straight stream.

I'm guessing this could be due to channeling, but I'm not sure.

The first shot I pulled today was much less sour than a typical 1st shot that I pulled prior to these adjustments. I would typically just call the 1st shot a sink shot, but this 1st shot was very drinkable, if a bit flat. The 2nd shot was quite nice, with a more full bodied, bold flavor coming out, and right in the zone without being bitter or sour. Again the stream was not the picture perfect stream that I have seen in some videos, but the taste was quite nice. I didn't shoot any video today, as I want to play around a bit more before shooting another video to upload.

Thanks again for a starting point in playing around with the variables, Ray.

You are most welcome. Sounds like you are on the right track. Keep in mind too, a lot has to do with the freshness and quality of your beans also. A fresh blend of high quality beans can make quite a difference in how the extraction goes.

Weeding out (and identifying) channeling is pretty straight forward with a bottomless portafilter. You should also examine the puck and look for any little holes that were dug into the surface (usually around the outside radius, especially if your tamper's diameter isn't spot on with your basket). On my older La Pavoni (seen in the videos there), I use a 49.5mm tamper for best results. Using a 49.0mm seems to encourage channeling around the outside of the basket, so that 1/2 mm does make a difference from what I have experienced.

Anyway, if you are getting channeling, it will usually be seen on the bottom of the portafilter basket as a foamy little starting point (that is beginning way ahead of the rest of the extraction), while the rest of the screen is still trying to form more in the way of droplets.

As far as the stream and how it forms, etc. If it takes a while for the droplets to coalesce into a stream, that's generally a sign that the tamp is a bit too hard. However, that doesn't always mean you'll end up with a bad shot. I've had plenty of shots where the stream didn't fully form and pickup velocity until almost 3/4 of the way into the shot and it still turned out great. Usually what kills a shot more is the water flowing too quickly through it. In cases where the water is delayed (as long as the water isn't way too hot), then you can usually compensate for that by just cutting the shot off based on color. In many cases, a shot that is slow to pull will still be very good (and a lot better than one where the water just rushed right through the basket).

Also, on the topic of the stream taking a while to form, you might want to try fiddling around with a bit of pre-infusion. Make the tamp just a hair lighter and then coax the water down into the basket with a 1/4 push on the lever. Then give it maybe 5 to 10 seconds to soak in. Then pull the lever up a bit to allow some additional water in, then pull slowly and watch the screen. Giving a little pre-infusion can produce a really nice shot, so long as it doesn't result in under extraction (i.e. water getting through the coffee too rapidly).

Just remember: there's no "right answer" for any given shot. Each shot is its own animal in many respects (especially on totally manual lever machines). I think it's important to realize that you are never going to be able to duplicate every single shot in the same manner. The temp is always going to fluctuate up and down (especially on older machines with no PID, etc.). The grind and tamp are always going to have slight variations from day to day. You also have to realize that the beans are constantly aging; what you do on Monday with XYZ beans might work great, but by Friday it might be off a bit.

As long as you can get the shot in the ball park, then chasing that amazing shot is half the fun (at least for me). Once you really get the hang of your machine, you should be able to pull half way decent shots even on the first shot of the day. On my old La Pavoni, I can generally get it pretty close to "on the money" right out of the gate. Not every single shot is going to be perfect, but usually even the first shot or two are darn good by most standards.

Again, it sounds like you are getting things pretty close. Make sure you are using a good bean. You might want to try some Miscela d'Oro or LaVazza blends. I've had pretty good luck with those lately. Also, don't over look some of the local roasting places in town. Many times you can find very good blends from local roasters who are just as enthusiastic about their espresso as you are

In fact, I noticed you are located in Pasadena, where my Dad grew up and close to San Diego where I sometimes hang out. You might want to check out La Costa Coffee Roasting in Carlsbad, CA. They have an excellent espresso blend there, which is roasted fresh every couple of days (if not every day). I've used it myself and have had great results with it. As far as LaVazza, I usually order it from http://www.espressozone.com and get the "top class" espresso beans. I've also tried the super crema, but I find the top class one is slightly smoother. The Miscela Natura beans are also very good, although I'm planning on trying some of their other ones as well.

Finally, have you considered roasting beans at home? I'm just now getting into that. I haven't had a chance to do too much, but it's something I plan on trying more soon and I understand it can have a very positive impact on your coffee

Ray

I'm seeing a fair bit of channeling with uneven flow and spritzers. The whole shot seems a little fast. Have you tried distribution techniques like the WDT?

I also think the flow was a bit fast. I'd tamp a bit harder (I use 10-15 lbs. with my Cremina) and/or grind a bit finer. The extraction looked a little thin/watery to me, color was a bit light unless that was due to camera being used and the crema seemed to settle out way too quickly. My Cremina gives me the thickest, richest extractions of any machine I've had the pleasure of using, at home or commercially.

Ray, real nice videos... You've got me interested in fiddling with my LP again (I'd moved completely over to my less temperamental machines). OK, one other motivation is that my wife got it for me 14 years ago yesterday as a wedding present. VERY understanding wife in that in the meantime, "her" kitchen now has two other machines, and has had a cabinet ripped out to make room for a coffee-bar.

One nice addition I've been using with naked PFs is a hockey puck to get the cup far closer to the PF, and basket. Not an easy thing to find here in hockey-starved Southern California, but it was worth seeking out (finally found NHL-certified pucks at Sports Chalet - set me back a couple bucks). There's also something about adding a second puck to my espresso set-up - though the coffee-puck yields tastier results .

I threw this together the other morning. This is my routine using Detour's Punch Buggy espresso blend. Detour pulls their shots on a La Marzocco GS/3 and I can pull shots that taste the same if not better.


Some specifics:

• My tamper has a 5mm side wall. I only tamp with the top being flush with the basket ridge. This method leaves no headroom = no disturbance to the puck. I don't really tamp and use the "knocking" method you see in the video as the tamp.
• I grind 14.2g
• My grind isn't extremely fine for Punch Buggy - 150 rotations on the Kyocera (as the coffee ages 130 rotations)
• Bleed off for 20-25 seconds on high with 5 seconds on low (crazy - yes I know but I have OCD! )
• Release small amount of water so that it is already in the group head tube and ready to go
• One single Fellini

Lyndon,

Nicely done. I especially liked your shaking and distribution method there, using the jar from the Kyocera grinder

Was that whole milk or what? I usually use half & half, but never get much art on my pours.

Ray

RayJohns wrote:Lyndon,

Nicely done. I especially liked your shaking and distribution method there, using the jar from the Kyocera grinder

Was that whole milk or what? I usually use half & half, but never get much art on my pours.

Ray

Thanks Ray! I use 2% as whole milk is hard to come by around here, and 3.25/homo creeps a lot of people out. I've got a single hole tip on the steam wand right now, but can achieve the same results with the three hole - you just need to position it dead center instead of to the side.

As for the shaking method, I don't know where I came up with it or saw it, but somehow it worked it's way into my routine. Does it work or am I wasting my time? Maybe on both accounts, but I'm waiting for the LP to reach temp so it can't hurt - at least thats the way I see it. LOL!

CRAZY! Even your La Pavonis are backwards over there! ;P
This thread is great. Thanks for all of the great info guys.