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Sharing a pull - Page 3

Postby orphanespresso on Sat Dec 19, 2009 7:01 am

Juanjo....since the machine is an HX feed to the group, do you have a line pressure regulator valve on the machine or on the line somewhere? I too noticed the flow from the back before centering. So you are giving a couple of warming pulls (are these needed to warm the group or cool the hx?....not really enough to cool the hx so you must be warming). So when you go away to grind and do the fixings the water is cooking hot in the hx part of the machine and building pressure and when you come back and lock in the pf, pull down the lever, you likely may be getting a puck blaster from that first entrance of pressurized water, which will taper off in pressure as you hold the lever down. Your NYC water line pressure is likely at least 3 bar. The HX systems were designed after the straight dipper tube which preinfuses at whatever the boiler pressure setting.....1 to 1.5 bar (1.5 is old school)....so if you don't have a pressure valve to bring the line pressure down to some reasonable level this could be part of the issue. What happens with a higher line pressure is that one tends to grind finer and tamp harder for a lever than one would normally need to do to avoid flow through before the lever is released.
Your warming blasts seem pretty powerful but it may be that these blasts could be better used right before locking in the pf to remove some of the pent up pressure and get a more even ramp on the shot without puck shattering. I also agree with the no headspace idea. If your group screen is curved vs flat you have a self tamping screen which is meant to finish off the tamping and remove any headspace, again old school. Italian barman just grinding and using the tamp horn on either the machine or grinder to approximate the dose and then lock the pf hard to self tamp against the curved screen. So you may benefit from updosing, light tamping, pressure reducing, and why not just change everything????? Just kidding the crema looked lovely and the machine sure looks good.
Just some thoughts about the hardware.
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Postby michaelbenis on Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:14 am

KnowGood wrote:Mike,

I think all this can be "fixed" with the grind. Small adjustments will still allow you to leave no headroom but accommodate the coffee. I use 2 different coffees, two different grind settings (both from the same roaster - if this matters) and get the same results. All I can suggest is to play around and see if it works out in your favour. :)


Hi Lyndon,

Sure. I could adjust the grind to get the extraction I want with the dose that packs up to the shower screen - and that would work great with some of the beans I use (I'm a bit of changer - often having as many as 6 different beans in 250g packs per month, though they all get cycled over the year - maybe twice as many different SOs in the course of a year).

I'm particularly fond of Ethiopian single origins in the Elektra Microcasa a Leva, which is fussier than the Pav about updosing. It also produces exceptionally clear, delineated shots which are magic with an Ethiopian Sidamo, Yirgacheffe or Bale Wild Bean. Some of this spectacular delineation (which works so well with these SOs and in these cases yields a far superior shot to the Cremina, Pav or Caravel in my opinion) is lost to an extent if you dose up to the screen.

On the other hand I am able to avoid channeling with careful distribution, a fine grind and light tamp, so I am quite happy.

Another single origin I am fond of comes from Java and is a tremendous chocolate bomb that is quite happy being updosed to the hilt in the Cremina, where it produces a complete difficult but no less spectacular result.

As I said.... horses for courses. I'm sure your method is working a treat for your beans in your Pav.

Cheers

Mike
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Postby Juanjo on Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:54 pm

Doug,
as far as pressure regulator this is what I have
Image
the flushing is to heat up the heads..
The shower screen is pretty flat...
but I think that maybe part of my "problem", when I restore the machine I took the head apart, and I bang a little bit the shower screens... that's next in my list. Two new shower screens.. but at $26 each http://www.cafeparts.com/productDetail1...emID=53316 I'm going to wait a bit.

regardless, I clean them up today, and try to tamp with the "always right" Espro tamper.. and the result was a lot better.. at least visually.

Must say, I really appreciate the way my shot was taking apart and criticized.. VERY helpful.

Thanks a lot.

PS.
Greg,
by any chance do you sell 14mm steel balls?
I'm having trouble finding them.. at least of the right material.
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Postby michaelbenis on Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:38 pm

OMG!!!!!! :D :lol: :lol:

Great!
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Postby orphanespresso on Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:31 pm

Wow....quite a bit of plumbing there. Does the valve setup give you a constant line pressure? Do you adjust the reading on the gauge with the water faucet valve itself or is there some other mechanism. You may or may not be getting a constant line pressure with this setup, its hard to tell just how it works. I tried reducing the flow and getting it worked out that way but realized that I had the same pressure, just lower flow and ended up getting an actual pressure regulating valve. If your setup delivers constant line pressure I would sure like to know how you made it....seems a masterwork of hydraulic engineering not to mention plumbing fittings!!
Thanks for the shot!
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Postby KnowGood on Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:21 pm

Juanjo wrote:Must say, I really appreciate the way my shot was taking apart and criticized.. VERY helpful.

Thanks a lot.


Please do tell what you did differently, because that shot looked pretty damn good!
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Postby HB on Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:31 pm

KnowGood wrote:Please do tell what you did differently, because that shot looked pretty damn good!

After offending Juanjo in round one, I've decided to sit out any further critiques. So instead, I'll defer to whomever wishes to comment on the following frames. What problems, if any, do you see? What would be your recommendations, if any?

Image

Image

Image

Image

Hint 1: It does appear to be a more even extraction, but what do the first and second set of frames have in common?

Hint 2: Juanjo reports that the second espresso tastes about the same as the first one.
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Postby KnowGood on Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:47 pm

HB wrote:but what do the first and second set of frames have in common?


-uneven beading

HB wrote:Hint 2: Juanjo reports that the second espresso tastes about the same as the first one.


-stale/old beans in hopper???
Lyndon
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Postby HB on Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:05 pm

Sorry Lyndon... close, but no cigar.

Another hint: Hint 1 and Hint 2 are related.
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Postby KnowGood on Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:08 pm

HB wrote:Sorry Lyndon... close, but no cigar.

Another hint: Hint 1 and Hint 2 are related.


It's still flowing from the back.
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