As this never occurred whilst (love that word) pulling HX shots, I need some help here.
After removing the PF after pulling a shot on my Cremina, more than occasionally I'll notice that the puck has a weathered, rough appearance, and is just a touch wet looking, but not soupy. I don't believe it's due to too cold water. Could it be due to either under-dosing a "disturbed" puck while lifting the lever, or something else?
I don't observe any major clumps before filling the basket prior to the pull, and am tamping about 25lb.
TIA


EDIT...I think I'm going to purchase the CMH from Chris. Perhaps that will help.

Dang, Rob, how long have you been thinking about a CMH? Seems like quite awhile! I thought about it and opted for an SJ, at least for now. I just can't deal with the Cimbali look, I guess! I May sell my bike after awhile and upgrade to a Kony or, heck, a Robur, someday, but it's not in the cards anytime too soon.

The Olympia doesn't have anything like a pressure relief, right? Do you have to let the puck sit and depressurize slowly before taking it out? If so, I am not sure I would expect your pucks to look like the ones from an HX machine with a 3-way valve. I also don't understand what you mean by "weathered." Do you have any pictures? Seems like as long as it's even and hopefully not pitted your shot volumes are good, you should be in alright shape. I have had plenty of fine shots from pucks that didn't look pristine--so how are your shots?

Lifting the lever shouldn't do any damage to your puck. Air will flow quite freely through the dry puck without issue. If you suspect this type of problem, you can always lift the lever almost all the way up before locking in the PF. The only thing I can think of that might disturb your puck at the beginning of the shot is if the water flows into the piston too fast. There is no dispersion block of any kind, so an underdosed shot could definitely get disturbed during preinfusion. I would try to take it slow when you hit that point raising the lever where the water starts to flow in. Just hold it and let it trickle in for awhile before opening it all the way to the top. That is what I would do with my Pavoni, which works similarly (though the quality is far from comparable ).

Not to deter you from an equipment upgrade, of course. By all means, by all means....

Nicholas....I needed to sell my SJ before I could spring for the CMH...
I realize that a funky puck doesn't always lead to a funky pull...but the resultant shot blonded after about 10 seconds from the descent of the lever...no squirts (I've got a Newd PF)....
I was doing the "Fellini" technique, slowly lift to the top, then a couple of 1/4th pulls(pumps), then a full pump down. But as I like short shots, I think I'll try your suggestion to stop just short of fully up, then lift to top, and pull. I exerting about 30lbs down. With my Pavoni, 30 lbs would get me 1oz in 25-28 seconds.
I wonder if I may have pop a piston gasket, as my shot volume is close to 2oz. Home Espresso Repair had pronounced my gaskets in fine shape. After getting my Cremina back, I did have one memorably long...and nearly impossible to finish pull, thanks to a too fine grind on the SJ. The lever flexed a touch, buit did not bend. stopped the pull, released some pressure from the steam valve, and finished the pull.
I'm a bit discouraged...not common for me, but I think as fine a grinder as the PeDe is, it may be my distribution that's off as well. I'm not particularly fond of having to scoop coffee into a basket.

OT...the PeDE helped produce the absolute BEST Aerobie press Americano I've ever had. I highly recommend a hand grinder for this. I'm sure others, such as Jack have a better "handle" (sorry ) on how to best utilize a hand grinder for espresso.
It's a bummer being a NOOB...again.

I never had any luck with the "Fellini" move, or any variation of it, on my Pavoni. It sounds like something that is totally unsuited to a direct lever machine like a Pavoni or a Cremina--seems like it was originally intended for spring levers to begin with, right? Anyway, I strongly feel like pulling the lever up after pressing it down again is an action that is more than likely to mess with your puck. I could be wrong (not too unusual ), but that's been my experience. I love ristrettos to begin with, so 1 oz. shots from 12-13 grams of coffee never bothered me. If you want a Normale, I would try the single basket.

Keep us posted on your experience. I am looking forward to seeing what you perceive as changed with the CMH. Who knows, maybe you'll convince me to put it on my short list...

I have a Cremina too that I recently got (I think I'm about 2-3 weeks behind you) and although you didn't post any pics, I know exactly what you mean because I see the same thing. Lately I've been using the single basket (that started a couple of weeks ago when I was running out of coffee - typically either Black Cat or Kid-O). The procedure after bean dosing, grinding, dispensing and tamping is to do a pressure release with the steam wand, raise the lever with the pf a bit loose, lock the pf and count to 10, than pull a shot of about 25 sec. I typically have a puck that has a "weathered" surface and have wondered about it too. Also, the crema I get is not the darker russet brown kind, but lighter and often spotted. That is after the first shot, which usually has ginger crema which I have taken as due to a greater than 2 degree temp change in the water (it is a bit acidic too). Subsequent shots have somewhat darker crema with speckles - taste fine to me.
Oh - I'm still using the plastic tamper as the Reg I ordered hasn't come yet. The only problem with it is that it is a bit small in diameter, leaving coffee up the edges of the basket after the soft tamp. I can usually get this off by a gentle tap.

Bill

just go buy the new grinder and stop trying to get us to justify it so you can show you wife this thread and say see they think i should get a new grinder..

jon

Hi Rob, Although I'm far from an expert with the Cremina, I've always had better luck with simplicity. Raise the lever 2/3 way with the PF open slightly, then close the PF, and Slowly raise the lever all the way. Count to 10 (or 15 or whatever) and then pull your shot. Every time I've tried the Fellini or variations of it, the shot never turns out as nice. My pucks usually have a "rougher" look to them (like rain drops on sand). I always assumed it was a shower from the showerhead. Michael

HB wrote:I've seen spent pucks with tops as smooth as the countertop and others that looked like moonscapes. If there is a correlation between the puck's surface after depressurization and the taste of the espresso, I've yet to discover it. In barista competitions, the tech judges only look for consistency; whether the spent pucks are firm as a brick, mushy, or in between, they don't care, as long as they're the same shot-to-shot.

Anyway, although I'm not into puckology, I agree with the above posters that the Fellini Move will likely disturb the pristine nature of the puck's surface. The cause was more evident when I started using a bottomless portafilter with the Ponte Vecchio Lusso because with the bottom open to the air, it was easy to hear the sucking sound of air being drawn through the puck when recocking the lever.

Back to the original question: Rob, do you correlate a taste defect with the rough surfaced pucks? Or are you grasping for justification of an upgrade?

Dan.,..there is a video on YouTube with the "barista" (who shall remain nameless) performing the Fellini on a Cremina.
As I have no electric grinder now, ANYTHING will be an upgrade.

RegulatorJohnson wrote:just go buy the new grinder and stop trying to get us to justify it so you can show you wife this thread and say see they think i should get a new grinder..

jon

Sounds like you've been there done that yourself