Hello,

This is my first post on Home-Barista. I beg for apologize in case this is a duplicate thread. If so, I would be happy for links to the right source.

I bought an old La Pavoni Europiccola, dated 1963 according to the seller. I payed SEK1000 (~EUR100). It's in really good condition, but in need of new gaskets. Two questions arise:

1) Where can I buy gaskets that fit?
2) How can I open up the machine with common tools that can be bought in a store?

Here are a couple of images on my machine.

Oh, by the way. I have been googling about it, and found some pieces of relevant information, like this thread on Home-Barista and this article. These are, though, a little too advanced for me. I feel lost when reading them.

All tips and advices would be greatly appreciated. I really like to make this machine usable.

@ johey,

Mr. Ceccarelli's site might help you?
http://www.francescoceccarelli.eu/index_eng.htm

Greetings

Hi Johey,
Most importantly, before following any instructions that talk about "banging" out the piston with a mallet, you'll need to check what type of dispersion screen is on the grouphead
Have a look at Parts for Old Europiccola (1960s)
As you will see in that thread the dispersion will either be a "pop" out type or most likely the type that unscrews
Either way, you'll need to remove the large circular gasket that is around the dispersion screen.
If it looks similar to this pic

then the screen and brass sleeve will need to be unscrewed - This can be done by placing 2 nail sets in a vice, and lining them up the the holes in the brass screen and slowly turning to "unscrew" the sleeve from the grouphead.
The guys over at Orphan Espresso have gaskets for the older types of la pavoni's
Hope that helps you out a little more
Anthony

Thank you alot for quick and great advice!

I think this is the model where you need to unscrew the screen. When I realised that I might need access to special tools and that the gaskets I could buy for Europiccola in my local store don't fit this old machine, I put it out for sale again. And I bought a newer Pavoni Pro. But now, knowing that the parts can be ordered and that it really is possible opening up the machine, I'm concidering keeping it and put some time on fixing it.

I suggest to keep this vintage machine. The looks maybe not as fancy as the new models', but the build quality is much better. The cast aluminium base is more stable, the piston/cylinder is better quality either. It's like undestructable...

I spoke with my onkel, and he will help me build a tool to unscrew the screen. "No problems".

Yesterday I ordered a group gasket from Orphan. All other gaskets in the machine are the same as in the other pre-milennium piccolas, right? Right?

I bought a set of gaskets from a local coffee store. Hope they will fit.

SiD- wrote:The looks maybe not as fancy as the new models', but [...]

No, no, no... This one is a real beauty. The newer Pro I bought is way behind on fanciness. Thank you for convincing me keeping this machine!

Ofcourse it is a beauty!
Here's my old one:

Johan....yes, the portafilter gasket you ordered is needed. Once you get the cylinder out you may need to come up with a thin o ring to seal it when reinstalling, and likely, if you need a new boiler cap gasket you will need to make one by hand or adapt some rubber seal for this large cap....not a standard EPicc part anymore. Otherwise, you are on the right path.

Great to hear!

Yesterday I managed to remove the old group gasket. Not in one piece, but anyway... Now I have verified that the screen has two holes so it needs to be descrewed. And I meassured the gasket size to verify that I actually ordered the right thing. Seems so. Heh.

Before bringing the machine to my onkel, I think about trying hammer two nails in a piece of wood and hope it will be strong enough.

Hi Johey,

I also tried the "2 nails in wood" approach, and found that either the wood split or the nails bent - To unscrew the screen doesn't require superman strength, but a lot more that you think
The bent nails and split wood led me to use nail sets in a vise
Nails sets similar to these can be found in most hardware stores....Best of Luck, sounds like you are almost there, and we're glad that you giving another vintage machine a second life

Anthony

Hello Johey:

johey wrote:And I meassured the gasket size to verify that I actually ordered the right thing.

The gasket size for these older (but IMHO, much better but models) is the same as the ones used by the Olympia which are carried by Doug + Barb at Orphan Espresso.

You may have some problems obtaining the following:

- The thin gasket between the cylinder and the group, but maybe the original is still in good shape.
- The gasket that seals the bottom part (screw on?) of the boiler.
- The two large diameter graphite/fibre/paper washers that go between the AL base and the boiler, one in contact with the top the base and in contact with the one bottom of the base.
- the sight glass seals.

The rest of the seals are mostly 'O'rings (Buna N) and can be relatively easy to find.

johey wrote:before bringing the machine to my onkel, I think about trying hammer two nails in a piece of wood and hope it will be strong enough.

I know of two sure fire ways to solve this:

- have a tube turned like the one pictured below.



You then fine tune the external diametre to fit as close to possible to the perimeter of the group's cylinder well and then spot weld electrically the pins when you put them in place. The photo does not show the pins that were later welded on it.

This tool is as close (in how it works) to the originals I have seen and has the advantage of being able to use something to use leverage to move the cylinder: some are very, very hard to remove, usually having been in place for 40 years or more. In my own case, leverage with a long round and thick bar of steel was not enough, in one of my Shirleys I had to use a Bahco 40" plumber's wrench on the tool body along with some serious force to lossen the cylinder. The exact location of the pins and the tight fit of the tool around the perimeter of the cylinder well really helped a lot.

- as suggested above, you can get two good quality nail sets and hold them very tightly (and parallel) in a vise. Plain nails will bend/break and might even marr or damage the bronze cylinder/screen, holes. INHO, this method is rather difficult to use when the cylinder is stuck and can potentially damage the holes in the cylinder if not very careful as you have to manouver the whole unit.

Hope I have helped a bit.

Best regards,

CIV

- as suggested above, you can get two good quality nail sets and hold them very tightly (and parallel) in a vise. Plain nails will bend/break and might even marr or damage the bronze cylinder/screen, holes. INHO, this method is rather difficult to use when the cylinder is stuck and can potentially damage the holes in the cylinder if not very careful as you have to manouver the whole unit.

CIV, thanks you do bring up a good point (and one which I had forgotten about) - My experience has been with a La Cara / La Graziella machine, both machines allow you to remove the grouphead from the boiler as it is a bolt on item - I understand older La Pavoni's( including Johey's machine) the grouphead is actually fixed/welded to the boiler and cannot be removed - In that case, the nailset method can still be used, but yes, I agree, much more difficult to do...

Cheers

Anthony

Thank you for all tips! However...

I gave up the idea of making this on my own and brought the machine to my onkel. After two hours, we came up with a tool that perfectly solved the problem. This is by far my most advanced tool that I will only use twice a decade.



So, now I have replaced the gaskets inside the cylinder. The hard-to-find-anywhere gasket is old and fragile, but at least in one piece. I smeared it with some vegetable oil to increase its lifetime. I think it is still okay.

I tried to heat up the machine and it seems not to leak anywhere. Maybe I need to replace the gasket for the boiler cap, but I think that is all. I am waiting for the group gasket to arrive, then I can try making me a cup of coffee.

I'll eventually update this post... To be continued...

Hello Johey:

johey wrote: ... brought the machine to my onkel. After two hours, we came up with a tool that perfectly solved the problem ...

Well ...
You will have to use it everytime you need to change piston gaskets, shaft gasket or in case the piston shaft eventually comes loose (fixed with a wee bit of Loktite) before reassembly.

All I can say is congratulations to your onkel (uncle?), as the tool he made for you is truly a materpiece. If I can be so annoying as to ask this of you, could you post the dimensions he used to make the tool?

Thanks in advance,

CIV

VERY WELL DONE, great tool !!! Your onkel and yourself have way more patience than I do to make a great tool

Uncle, of course. How embarrasing. Indeed it is a masterpiece.

Here are the dimensions. Sorry for the non-standard markup.

Next question arises. How do I remove the water level display glass? It is mounted in unremovable metal pieces and it seems to be too long to be removed from them. Any ideas?

That one is a standard La Pavoni difficult job. The glass comes out the top to the housing after removing the top screw and loosening the two nuts at the upper and lower mounts. One must grasp the glass through the metal cover and twist and push up. This is not easy to do of course since the metal cover gives but a tiny spot to grasp the glass. Many times the glass tube will break if you try to grasp it with a tool, even a pliers or grip with leather on the jaws. I think the actual manner to most efficiently remove it is to decide at the beginning to just break it and replace with a new one. Removing this tube from an old machine without breaking it is the hardest job on the machine, except perhaps getting the screw on boiler element loosened.

The cylinder tool is beautiful....too bad there is no tool for removing the tube, just patience and brute finger gripping force. If you can hold it enough to turn it this will allow you to apply lubricant and slowly move it upward through the housing, but again, grip and twist, then twist and push upward. Good luck!

Okay. Thanks, but I think I will leave it as it is. It's not leaking at the moment. Was just thinking about cleaning it.

However, I don't really get how you mean. The top house is solid with no opening at the top. Seems like it is welded with the glass tube in place. Here is an old picture of that detail.

Whoa! You sure have stumped me on that one.....sorry for carrying on about sight glass removal......we all know that there MUST be a way but from the looks of that picture, it is welded in place! Hard to believe that you are supposed to remove the sight glass housings from inside the boiler, but even the housing seem to be soldered into place and chrome plated over the top!

Hope someone has the answer on this one....interesting!