Added 9/15: Cammie's experience with this seller suggests a language barrier and lack of expertise. Cammie has bought twice from the seller and has been happy with those purchases. I remain concerned that the machine itself is questionable and insufficient information has been given to value it beyond the parts cost. So, please view this thread as a caveat about buying a vintage machine with insufficient information.

Hi All,

In the spirit of a thread started by Doug Garrott a few years ago, I'd like to post my concerns about a questionable La Pavoni Europiccola being offered on eBay. I write this to encourage an open and honest marketplace. The item number is 231328780072. What's pictured is a 1964-68 machine mounted on a Millennium base. That vintage machine in its original form is worth owning. It would typically have a 200W brew element and a 600W steam element, plus a group with a brass sleeve that together make for excellent temperature control. Build quality of those early machines is excellent, partly because of their sturdy base. The shortcoming of that particular vintage is the group is difficult to service, requiring a special tool. It turns into the boiler rather than being bolted to it. So, even though it resembles a Millennium group by its shape, it's the older version. The shower screen and with it the inner cylinder and piston can only be removed with the special tool. The sightglass is housed without an upper screw or bolt so it may be more challenging to remove.

The Millennium base is thin, stamped metal, prone to rust. They can be maintained but don't have the quality of the old ones and the pull would not feel rigid like the old ones. I infer the reason to mount the machine on that base is that the original heating element or elements may have blown. That's also suggested by the more modern switch on the side. So the machine may have been modified with a pressurestat and a more current heating element. But it's hard to tell if the mod is successful.

The seller won't confirm whether it heats for brewing and steaming. When asked, the seller at first claims ignorance, having bought it at a flea market, and will only claim that it heats. The same seller offers multiple machines from Italy and is not new to this business. When asked the seller also refuses to reveal what's inside of the base, claiming inability to do so because the machine is already packed.

So, this is a machine that was once collectible but is now a composite that combines undesirable features of old and new, and the seller won't show the nature of the revisions or state that they work beyond the machine becoming warm. Buyer beware of that machine and that seller.

pootoogoo wrote:I already saw this guy trying to sell at high price machines that he apparently didn't own (proposed at low price on Italian classified adds at the same time)... and that's just one example.

That's a very creative approach to "just-in-time inventory" for sure!

cuppajoe wrote:Thanks for the heads-up Gary, a definite service for newbies.

....

For anyone contemplating purchasing a vintage LP and not very familiar with the line, this site would be a good place to start - http://www.francescoceccarelli.eu/lapavoni_ep_eng.htm. He also sells machines, some quite rare.

Yes, that's the mainly audience I'm addressing. If you're interested in a vintage machine but new to this, please feel free to ask* before you buy, research what might break and be hard to replace. Collecting isn't a simple thing. Sometimes you'll find a vintage machine for a bargain and the seller claims ignorance. They just may not know. In such situations I consider how much I want the machine and what might be wrong with an untested one -- also what might be right with an untested machine that has obviously had little use. Photos can tell you a lot. So can some knowledge about servicing a unit you're considering.


* If you don't want to call attention to something offered at auction, don't just ask me! Please find a thread by someone who owns one and especially if they've serviced it and shoot them a PM. Two of my best finds were machines I didn't know about and asked knowledgeable people (Lady Duchessa and Conti Prestina), and am glad I did.

I completely agree about Francesco.

And yes, language can be a barrier. But this seller's excuses for refusing information were too convenient and the machine too odd to believe him. I am pointing him out as only one case where a seller refuses essential information to know what you might be buying.

I have asked similar questions and more of them from reputable sellers. The knowledgeable ones answer openly and provide photos. The ones who truly don't know explain themselves in a way that doesn't look like they are covering up. Honest but non-expert sellers may offer a better deal after I explain the risks of not knowing what they can't test. I have bought machines on that basis and have been very satisfied.

Cammie,

That is a very fair and helpful post. None of us knows what is going on when someone halfway across the world lists an item for sale and does not answer requests for more information. I am going to edit my first post to soften my criticism while still warning about that particular machine.

Back to the machine. If I were thinking of buying it I would have these additional concerns and for that reason I would not pay more for it than the value of the parts that you see in the photos. Someone may get lucky and find that it works well. Or they may find that the bottom is poorly attached, the electrical connections are unsafe, there are steam leaks, who knows what? It's impossible to tell without looking inside the base.