Problems with the Riviera

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Harold
Posts: 11
Joined: 9 years ago

#1: Post by Harold »

I need to pump the lever a few times before the pull, even then the coffee doesn't start coming out until 1/2 way down.

After I've finished the pull and waited a few seconds there is still water & pressure between the plunger and the top of the filter. When I remove the filter some water is still sitting on top and flows out as well as some air pressure.

The coffee is on the weak side compared to the La Pavoni Europiccola

No crema.

The grinds and tamping aren't the problem.
Any suggestions?
thanks

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RioCruz
Posts: 631
Joined: 14 years ago

#2: Post by RioCruz »

Make sure to bleed off the false pressure before pulling the shot.
Turn on the machine. Wait for it to get up to pressure and the automatic turn off kicks in. Bleed off the false pressure. This may take 5 or 10 seconds. While the machine is coming back up to pressure, grind your beans and dose the basket and tamp. Bleed off one more time. Lock in the basket, wait for the machine to get back to pressure and turn off, preinfuse, pull the shot.

Give this a try and see if there is any improvement.

How long have you had your Riviera? Is this something new it has just started doing, or has it always acted this way? Fresh coffee? Do you pull double or single shots? Do you weigh your beans? How much coffee do you use for single shots? Doubles?
"Nobody loves your coffee more than you do."
~James Freeman, Blue Bottle

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RioCruz
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Joined: 14 years ago

#3: Post by RioCruz »

Remember, too, that the Pavoni and the Riviera produce 2 very different types of shots. The Riviera is much more like the Elektra MCAL than the Pavoni, and will give you very nuanced shots...not the thick, crema-filled shots of the Pavoni.

Joseph posted this to another thread about the MCAL. This applies to the Riviera as well:
If you prefer thick and syrupy ristrettos, you may want to consider a manual lever espresso machine like the Olympia Cremina or La Pavoni Europiccola, which can deliver higher brew pressure by pushing the lever harder. The Microcasa's maximum brew pressure is limited by the power of its spring, delivering a slowly declining pressure profile. The result is a delightfully layered taste profile and exceptional clarity while sacrificing the heavy body manual lever espresso machines can deliver. /elektra-mi ... eview.html
"Nobody loves your coffee more than you do."
~James Freeman, Blue Bottle

Harold (original poster)
Posts: 11
Joined: 9 years ago

#4: Post by Harold (original poster) »

Make sure to bleed off the false pressure before pulling the shot.
Turn on the machine. Wait for it to get up to pressure and the automatic turn off kicks in. Bleed off the false pressure. This may take 5 or 10 seconds. While the machine is coming back up to pressure, grind your beans and dose the basket and tamp. Bleed off one more time. Lock in the basket, wait for the machine to get back to pressure and turn off, preinfuse, pull the shot.
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That's my standard procedure.


How long have you had your Riviera? Is this something new it has just started doing, or has it always acted this way? Fresh coffee? Do you pull double or single shots? Do you weigh your beans? How much coffee do you use for single shots? Doubles?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We've had the Riviera about 16 yrs.
It's been doing this for a long time, I don't remember when it started
Yes, fresh coffee
I pull double shots
I don't weigh the beans
I over fill the filter, tap it a couple of times, blade off the top so the coffee is even, then tamp to 30 lbs. (I made a tamping scale)
I pull the lever up and wait about 20 sec. then start to pull down. About half way down the coffee starts to come and I move the lever back up and start again. I do this a couple of times then do the full pull. The lever still moves down around half way before the coffee starts flowing.
For my wife's coffee I do a double pull on the double shot. The second pull is slightly better than the first.

On my shots I remove the filter then steam the milk. On her shots, I steam the milk then remove the filter.
Either way the coffee in the filter is still pretty wet and sticks to the screen covering the plunger. As compared to the La Pavona where the coffee in the filter is much drier after the pull.

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crazy4espresso
Posts: 677
Joined: 14 years ago

#5: Post by crazy4espresso »

Hello and welcome,

Are you using fresh roasted coffee? As in less than 2 weeks post roast? Also, weighing the beans will go a long way in improving consistency between shots.
I'm currently rebuilding a Riviera but have yet to use it as I'm waiting on new seals. When was the last time this machine was serviced? Are there any leaks at the group?
One thing I've noticed is that the spring, at least on the older machines, seems quite small and weak, and could be a contributing factor for the little to no crema you're experiencing.
"I would rather suffer with coffee than be senseless." — Napoleon Bonaparte
LMWDP #427

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RioCruz
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#6: Post by RioCruz »

Harold wrote:I pull the lever up and wait about 20 sec. then start to pull down.
Hmmm... Sounds like you have a Baby Big or an Espresso Baby, rather than the Riviera. But Zacconi has changed the names around quite a bit over the years. The main thing is how the lever works. My Riviera--as well as all the other Riviera's I have ever dealt with--have spring-loaded groups rather than the direct lever you are describing. The Baby Big and Espresso Baby, like the Pavoni, are direct lever (no spring). Do you have a photo of your machine you can upload? That could be helpful.

Whatever the case, I have found that I get much better shots and no wet grounds with my Riviera if I pull single shots of 7 gms. of coffee rather than trying to pull double shots. My sense is that the Riviera was designed for single shots and that altho using them for doubles can be done, the results are not as good. I generally pull single shots on the Rivera and doubles on the Pavoni. The singles on the Riviera are small...under 1 oz. of juice, but they are exquisite. However, if you make double shots with it...pulling twice with each shot...I would dose with 12-13 gms. of coffee. See if that makes a difference.
"Nobody loves your coffee more than you do."
~James Freeman, Blue Bottle

Harold (original poster)
Posts: 11
Joined: 9 years ago

#7: Post by Harold (original poster) »

Thanks for the suggestions, I will give a go




desertjava
Posts: 16
Joined: 9 years ago

#8: Post by desertjava »

crazy4espresso wrote: I'm currently rebuilding a Riviera but have yet to use it as I'm waiting on new seals. .
Don't mean to threadjack but was hoping you could share your source... I have a riviera that needs piston and portafilter seals and OE says they are out of stock.

Thanks!

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crazy4espresso
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#9: Post by crazy4espresso replying to desertjava »

PM sent.
"I would rather suffer with coffee than be senseless." — Napoleon Bonaparte
LMWDP #427

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RioCruz
Posts: 631
Joined: 14 years ago

#10: Post by RioCruz »

OK...looks like you have a Lusso. It is now called the Zacconi Espresso Baby. Just an older version than the current models.

Try downdosing, as I said, and use the single basket and see if that helps. Please let us know what you find out cuz the issue might come up again sometime.

What grinder do you use?

For piston seals and all other things Zacconi, give Chris Cara in San Francisco a try: (415) 781-0383
Also, Francesco Ceccarelli is a great source outside the U.S: info@francescoceccarelli.eu
"Nobody loves your coffee more than you do."
~James Freeman, Blue Bottle

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