Problems with new La Pavoni Europiccola

#1: Post by **JohnInMontreal** » August 1st, 2014, 8:47 pm

Hello All,

I purchased a new EPC in 2014. Yesterday I noticed that the lever and group head were off-center. Before turning it on I used my hands and a little force to twist it back into line with the La Pavoni emblem on the base of the machine but it did not move. I was rather frustrated and applied more force. This time using two arms and a considerable amount of torque and still it did not budge. So, as most of us at Home-Barista do when at our wit's end, I decided to pull a shot. When I fit the PF into the group-head the boiler twisted with ease - as though the base was buttered. I was then able to turn the boiler back into a centered position.

The machine is under warranty but before I go into the shop filled with righteous indignation I would like to understand what the issue is. Could this be caused by my misuse of the machine? Has anyone else experienced this problem?

#2: Post by **rpavlis** » August 2nd, 2014, 10:29 am

My 1978 Europiccola does this. The problem is caused by the fact that the boiler expands when heated, the brass base stays cooler because of metal conductivity. This makes it loose when the boiler is hot. At one point La Pavoni used plastic rings to hold the boiler in place. Those machines do not have this problem. They eventually went back to the metal rings, perhaps they were worried about catastrophic failure of the plastic?

I just use care not to turn the boiler on this machine when it is heated up.

#3: Post by **wkmok1** » August 4th, 2014, 1:48 am

I just noticed the same thing with my new Stradavri yesterday. When cold, the boiler is solidly attached. When hot, the boiler can rotate relative to the base smoothly, as though it was greased. I see what looks like an o-ring between the boiler and the base.

Winston

#4: Post by **drgary** » August 4th, 2014, 1:56 am

This is certainly worth bringing to the dealer. Christopher Cara* in San Francisco showed me how to tighten the boiler onto the base on my 1990 pre-Millennium Europiccola. It held for awhile, then started turning again. I asked if he thought it okay to use a medium strength Loctite to hold it in place. He said that would work. I tried it and it did. I'm not suggested you do this as it could void your warranty. It doesn't come from misusing your machine. I have an early Millennium Europiccola with the plastic attachment rings and it doesn't turn.

* His family business is the original importer of La Pavoni to the U.S.

#5: Post by **wkmok1** » August 19th, 2014, 11:23 pm

Thanks, Dr. Gary. I bought a security torx key to open up the base. There is a small copper pipe that runs from the bottom of the boiler to something attached to the base. I think it is the pressurestat. If the boiler can rotate against the base, I am concerned that it would put stress on that pipe. So I took it to the local dealer today. Hope it works.

If the boiler becomes loose again, how do I apply the Loctite? From diagrams on the net, there are 2 fiber gaskets, one above the big hole in the base and a second below. Do I have to disassemble to the point of being able to remove the gaskets?

While I was at the dealer, I noticed that the handle on the demo unit goes up and down smoother than mine. I am thinking of taking the group apart to lube the piston. After taking out the 2 bolts does the dip tube come out with the group? If so, I'll have to be more careful with how I move the group away. Probably good to teflon tape the bolts too, right?

Thanks,

Winston

#6: Post by **drgary** » August 19th, 2014, 11:30 pm

Hi Winston:

Since you have a new machine, have the dealer fix it so you don't void your warranty. That includes the boiler swivel. (Added: The boiler swivel is a minor issue in practice. When using the machine don't turn it and it won't interfere with the PSTAT or electrical connections.) There's no need to be extra careful about the dipper tube. The group easily lifts out with that attached and the dipper tube easily unscrews. There's also no need to use Teflon tape on the group bolts. If you do add a Teflon heat break gasket between the group and boiler you will want to use longer stainless screws to hold that in securely.*

Safety issue with bolts holding group to some La Pavoni boilers

Generally you don't want to dry pump the lever. Yes, you can lube the piston gaskets but don't overdo it and have lube get into the shower screen. As long as yours is not dripping and is a smooth and holds pressure to push water through the coffee, since it's a new machine you're probably in good shape. If you do add Loctite to stop the boiler swivel you will not need to undo the gaskets. Just line it up and let it set.

* If installing a do-it-yourself heat break gasket instead of a factory spec part, for safety, be sure to install bolts that are longer by at least the extra thickness of the gasket. You'll want to have the bolt turn in by six full threads of engagement into the boiler, keeping in mind that any modifications to factory specification are taken at your risk as per the terms of use that you agree to when accessing this site.

#7: Post by **wkmok1** » August 24th, 2014, 3:52 pm

Dr. Gary,

The machine came back from repairs and it's now solid again. Because I bought mail-order from the States, I have no warranty here in Canada. The shop lubed my piston; it's much smoother now.

Following your postings,
1. Added a group thermometer. Knowing is so much more relaxing than guessing. I used a length of hollowed out wine cork and ties used for electrical wiring to hold the thermo-couple to the group.
2. Tamp using the weight of the tamper only. Gently holding to the top with my fingertips and then inscribing circles in space seems to yield an even puck and good seal around the edges.
3. Use 2-hand pull. It's a great way to pull smoothly and not over exert. The machine will tip a bit to warn you when pulled too hard.

Thanks for your wonderful tips.

Winston

#8: Post by **drgary** » August 24th, 2014, 5:13 pm

You're welcome, Winston. For others reading this too we have three guests at our home. On successive mornings I've made them espresso and milk drinks on a Cremina and a Millennium Europiccola side by side. Both have group thermometers. I'm feeding them coffees ground with a Fiorenzato Doge and an Orphan Espresso Pharos. I'm using the same grind settings and group temperature starting points. Shot quality is consistent and so close between them it's hard to know which cup I prefer. The Cremina has the edge for solid feel of the pull. The La Pavoni lever travels downward a bit before pressure fully engages, so sometimes I'll do a 1/4 pump to build pressure. The Europiccola has the edge for higher dose capacity using its stock double basket compared to an Elektra double basket in the Cremina. I can make excellent microfoam on both machines. The '87 Cremina has a slightly larger boiler and a better built steam valve, but both steam well. My point is if you're having second thoughts about trying to outbid everyone else for a Cremina the La Pavoni is a fine alternative.

#9: Post by **AZRich** » August 24th, 2014, 5:31 pm

Winston -
It sounds like you are not pulling hard enough to tip the machine? On my machine ('09 Pro) about 15lbs of force out near the end of the handle will just start to tip it. There have been some posts here in the past that calculated that 9 bars on a La Pavoni requires about 40-45 lbs. I usually hold one hand on the boiler cap to keep mine from tipping, and I see many hold a hand on the portafilter handle to keep it from tipping. If the 40-45 number was correct, then 15 or less is maybe only 3-4 bars? I would find it interesting to get some feedback from the LP veterans here as to how hard they prefer to pull. I am certainly not an expert lever guy.

regards,
Rich

#10: Post by **drgary** » August 24th, 2014, 5:55 pm

If you pull in a centered fashion you can use one hand and won't tip it. When I want to do higher pressure pulls I grip the portafilter handle to ease wear on the machine and avoid the flex at the base. But you don't want to do gorilla pulls and strain the lever pins and their insertion at the top of the group. If you hold the portafilter handle be sure to keep it cranked into the group so you don't have a typhoon of a portafilter sneeze.