mathof wrote:I noticed recently that when I do this, the extra boiler water brought into the group when I bring the lever back up causes the group temperature, as measured by a thermocouple on the exterior, to shoot up. I think it will probably be necessary to have a lower starting temperature for the pull whenever I intend to pump some extra water into the puck.

If I do a mini-pump to fill the group I too notice the jump in temp on my 1984 La Pavoni Pro, so I just get busy on the pull. As long as my start temp is right, even if I to a short mini-pump, not even 1/4, I just do the pull. Don't worry where the temp goes after I start. Don't worry were it ends up. Just worry about the start for my method of pull and it usually works out very well, and always with a room temp portafilter too.

There's enough brass in that group and typically it will even out the temps just enough to keep the pull from getting too hot I think.

Thank you, homeburrero It's amazing that Google translate worked on your signature line.

I can place my LP right up against the back of the counter-top, so it won't skid if I pulled with a vector component towards the back. Have not felt any urge to tip recently though. Thanks.

I only pull to the point of resistance and then push back up to admit more water. I suspect the amount must be small since the thermometer does not really react. I have only weighed my shots a couple of times; doing the re-load yields 32g. This is probably a touch high for a strict normale. Perhaps I don't need to bother at all.

Winston

Try this. Put both hands on the lever. Push with one more than the other and it will tend to tip. Get a feel for this and see how freely and easily you can keep it balanced using two hands. There's a tactile feel to it and the ability to push a bit harder while also keeping the machine upright. After awhile you can feel the direction of your pull with one hand as long as you're not crushing down through the puck. There's another tactile sense you develop. With practice of different doses and grind coarseness you will get a feel for the amount of pressure it takes to create rich crema and press hot water through the coffee cake with an even flow. You develop a sense of timing the preinfusion too. Sometimes a few drops will come through and they will slow down. There's more resistance from the coffee as the grounds swell with water. Sometimes there will be no droplets after raising the lever. Let's say you've used the same grind and coffee but increased the dose to get that effect. But now you have a sense of how long it takes to preinfuse and you pull maybe after a count of 10. As long as you haven't choked the machine you can pull through without crushing weight. You develop a feel for this manual process that you can rely on. You develop a sense memory of this. Sure you can steady the machine by holding the boiler cap or the corner of the drip grate but these days I'm finding that less necessary. I find pleasure in this crafting of the shot as a dance between barista and machine. This is not the only way to do it, more measurement is fine too.

DanoM wrote:If I do a mini-pump to fill the group I too notice the jump in temp on my 1984 La Pavoni Pro, so I just get busy on the pull. As long as my start temp is right, even if I to a short mini-pump, not even 1/4, I just do the pull. Don't worry where the temp goes after I start. Don't worry were it ends up. Just worry about the start for my method of pull and it usually works out very well, and always with a room temp portafilter too.

There's enough brass in that group and typically it will even out the temps just enough to keep the pull from getting too hot I think.

I think you may have the right idea. I tried a slightly lower starting temp this morning and did a mini-pump before pulling the shot. The result was sour!

That's my experience too.

wrote:I recalling reading somewhere that the Stradivari is supposed to be more stable. Not sure if that's just marketing talk referring to a heavier base or a bigger one. Once the machine starts tipping, the front rubber feet form the fulcrum. The distance from the feet to the tip of the lever is 7". How does this compare with an Europiccola?

I do not have an issue any longer, being that I am learning how much coffee to use at which grind.

The lever on the Stradivari seems to be slightly different, supposedly an upgrade to the year 2005 from 1950?
I don't know? 55 years of advanced technology on the same platform has to make some sort impact in the way it performs over the other. I was hoping for the better.

insatiableOne wrote:The lever on the Stradivari seems to be slightly different, supposedly an upgrade to the year 2005 from 1950?
I don't know? 55 years of advanced technology on the same platform has to make some sort impact in the way it performs over the other. I was hoping for the better.

It's a mix but mostly not as good because they've cheapened their materials and workmanship and favor appearance over build quality.

One improvement on the lever I can report on is that it is a one-piece design.

I would like to get some help on getting crema on my shots.

1. The beans are 49th Parallel Old School Espresso bought a 3-4 days ago from their HQ, which I assume is also their roasting facility. The UPC code tag showed the date of purchase. I assume freshness is not the culprit.
2. I WDT diligently and tamp very lightly. The puck is level and the surface is over 10mm below the rim of the basket.
3. Have tried 14.5g, 15g and 15.5g of dose.
4. Pull is 2-handed without undue exertion. The LP showed no signs of tipping at all.
5. Have tried exterior group temperature of 185F - 190F at the start of the pull. May have tired 195F, but not sure.
6. Water injection is very slow to avoid getting a divot in the puck and channeling. Lever is left up for 10s+. Is that too long?

The resulting shots have very little crema, nothing like the videos here nor on youtube. In a glass with a 2" diameter, the crema is only 1mm to 2mm thick. I am very reluctant to describe the taste of the shots, as I way too inexperienced. If pressed, I would say they are sour. Please don't put too much stake in that though.

What should I try to get more crema? Thanks for your help.

Winston

You probably need to grind coarser for more crema.

You could try updosing. I often load 17 or 18 gm in a LP Millennium double basket.

It looks like your starting group temperature is too low. Try between 198 and as high as 208. The external temperature is higher than inside the group. To see how that coffee should taste ask the roaster for recommended brew temperature and try brewing it with water that temperature as pourover or through a steep method. If you can't reach them try 200f as a starting point and go up or down from there depending on if it's too sour (cool) or too bitter (hot).

The sourness may be impossible to overcome with temperature adjustments if the beans are light to medium roast and have not had enough days to degas so more flavor can emerge.

You may be closer than you think to nailing a good shot. Stay with it. Once you get the hang of it, it gets repeatable and easier. It's probably not the machine either. This learning curve happens across a variety of machines.

Thanks, Dr. Gary.

I forgot to mention one thing in my previous entry. I attached the thermocouple much closer the bottom edge of the group than yours, perhaps 1/4" - 3/8" from the bottom. From a cold start, after flushing water through the PF, it would still take a few half raises of the lever to achieve 185F. After a shot, if I leave the pF attached for some minutes, I see a reading of around 195F. It is clear that there is an offset between my readings and yours. I suspect my starting temp of 190F is actually way too hot.

On second thought, the choice of location was made before I came up with anchoring the thermocouple with wine corks. I just moved the whole contraption up so that the TC is aligned with the bottom of the bridge to the boiler. The cork pieces are providing good friction. Will take more measurements tomorrow morning and try coarser grinds.

Thanks for the encouragement. I don't give up that easy. OCD comes in handy sometimes . Much more likely to stop once I can pull perfect shots on the drop of a dime. From all the postings, it seems to be something beyond the reach of mortals .

Winston