Hello everyone,

I recently purchased second-hand La Pavoni Professional for 410 dollars from ebay. When I turn the machine on and let it sit until it boils and steam is coming out of the boiler valve, the pressure gauge still reads 0 and never changes. Therefore I do not know when the water has boiled enough to be ready to press. I contacted the seller and he said that when he tested it before shipping, the pressure gauge was working so I'm not sure what exactly happened. I read on here that sometimes there is scale build up on the pressure gauge fitting, and indeed I cannot separate the fitting from the pressure gauge, no matter how hard I try with a wrench. I put it in some vinegar overnight but it seemed to have no effect. I'm also thinking about trying the method proposed here:
Is there anything else I could do in order to troubleshoot the pressure gauge issue? Is there any way I can press on the pressure gauge it in order to figure out if it is operational? If I try to pull espresso when I think the water has boiled enough, good espresso does come out, but I need to press the lever several times in order for enough espresso to come out. I am trying to decide whether it is best to return the item or not.

Many Europiccolas have no pressure gauge. It is not necessary! When you fill the thing properly with water, put on the cap and make sure the steamer valve is closed, you can connect it to the power. The pressure should rise and the light that indicates it is up to pressure should go out after a few minutes. You should then put something over the steam tip, and something under the group and open the steam valve and let steam out whilst you raise the group handle slowly until a bit of water is released. Immediately lower it to stop the water release from the group, and then lower it all the way slowly. There should be NO steam release except during steaming and during the bleeding operations described above. There are various ways of attaching gauges to the steam tip to test pressure with machines that do not have them. I made a boiler cap with a gauge for the same purpose. The temperature of the surface of the boiler should be about 115 to 117C when in operation. The power light should cycle on and off as the pressurestat turns on and off. About three minutes after the pilot light goes out after the bleeding operation, it is ready to pull the first shot.

The espresso machine I got does not have have a light indicating pressure. I believe that light is only present in Europiccola, but not in the Professional model. Currently, what I do to indicate that enough pressure is built up, is I wait until steam and water is coming out of the safety valve, and don't actually know if thats at the right pressure or not.

some comments and ideas:

You say:

ecks wrote:When I turn the machine on and let it sit until it boils and steam is coming out of the boiler valve, the pressure gauge still reads 0 and never changes. Therefore I do not know when the water has boiled enough to be ready to press.

Makes me wonder if maybe you have a newer machine with an anti-vacuum / safety valve, and it is stuck open. Sometimes happens when a machine is shipped. If you have an anti-vac valve (older models don't have them) it may hiss a little for a few seconds as the machine gets to boiling but should stop. You can try giving the safety valve cap a sharp rap with a wooden object - often that will make it stop hissing, and the valve might then quit acting up. If it continues to give you trouble you need to disassemble and clean your safety valve assembly.

ecks wrote:I read on here that sometimes there is scale build up on the pressure gauge fitting, and indeed I cannot separate the fitting from the pressure gauge, no matter how hard I try with a wrench.

I assume you succeeded in removing the gauge and fitting from the machine? That should be sufficient if you just need to descale the gauge. If you need to replace the gauge then you'll need the usual tricks - penetrating oil, tapping on the fitting, longer wrenches, etc.

ecks wrote:Is there any way I can press on the pressure gauge it in order to figure out if it is operational?

If your safety valve is not hissing, and you get a powerful blast of steam when you open the steam wand, then the built-in gauge is operational if it shows pressure. The only way I know to check accuracy is to verify with a steam wand gauge.

P.S.
That video is based on another one for making a portafilter pressure gauge. If you just need a steam wand pressure gauge it's way overkill. All you need is a gauge, an adapter (e.g., NPT to barb fitting) and a hose and c-clamp (brake line hose works.) Steam wand gauges are essential for adjusting the pressurestat on machines that lack a gauge, and can be needed when in doubt about the accuracy of the built-in boiler pressure gauge.

ecks wrote:I believe that light is only present in Europiccola, but not in the Professional model.

Correct, The pro has no light indicating whether or not it is heating.*

ecks wrote: Currently, what I do to indicate that enough pressure is built up, is I wait until steam and water is coming out of the safety valve, and don't actually know if thats at the right pressure or not.

This convinces me that you have a problem with the safety valve. On a Pro (and also on a Europiccola with a pressurestat), nothing should be coming out of the safety valve unless it is just beginning to heat up (anti-vac is open) or if the pStat or circuit has failed, letting the machine go way overpressure.

*Note: It can be wired so that the power switch light goes off when the pStat is open. This machine on the F. Ceccarelli site appears to have been wired that way. I don't think that's a normal wiring.

I think I might have a problem with the pressurestat actually. I forgot to mention that when the water gets to boiling temperature, there is a bit of pooling of water at the bottom of the base. I took the plate off the base and disconnected the pstat from pipe hookup. Upon looking inside the pstat, it looks like there is alot of gunk built up in there too. Would the gunk prevent the pstat from not functioning?






Is there a safe way to find out where the water is leaking from at the base? Only way I can think of is to hook everything up and turn it on but then the machine will be very hot and unsafe to try to look from the bottom to see where the water is coming from. On the fourth picture too, there is rust right at the junction where the base meets the heating element, and I see there is a white fitting in between that you cannot really see all around. I'm worried that is where the water is leaking from and would mean I would have to replace the whole base.

ecks wrote:Would the gunk prevent the pstat from not functioning?

It can, and would cause the pStat to not open the heater circuit, and it would go overpressure and blow steam out the safety valve with the pressure gauge indicating 1.2 bar or higher (if the gauge is working.) Sometimes it's necessary to use pipe cleaners to unclog that pressurestat pipe. Don't try to remove the whole pipe - doing that can be a pain (the pipe is a loctite fit onto the boiler.) You can use a vinegar treatment on the inside of the pstat. (Inside only, with the opening of the pstat up, then empty, rinse, and repeat. )

ecks wrote: On the fourth picture too, there is rust right at the junction where the base meets the heating element, and I see there is a white fitting in between that you cannot really see all around.

That's a likely leak spot. If it is going overpressure due to a clogged pStat that may have contributed a bit to blowing out the element gasket. You can try snugging up those three element bolts - go around and snug each in turn just a little til they are all tight. After you get the pStat resolved, cross your fingers. It may quit leaking and you can avoid removing the element and replacing that gasket.

ecks wrote:Is there a safe way to find out where the water is leaking from at the base?

Looking for telltale whitish deposits (like you did already.) Also, see Finding Small Steam Leaks

P.S.
Earlier I was pretty sure you had a stuck anti-vac valve. Wish that would have been it, would have been a simple fix. But now I see that your machine is an older one, and would not have an anti-vacuum valve unless someone added one, which is very unlikely. Unfortunately, you may have multiple problems (bad gauge, bad or clogged pStat, boiler leak ...) and that does make things difficult.

homeburrero wrote:Also, see Finding Small Steam Leaks

If you use the mirror trick discussed in that thread to look for leaks with the bottom off, be sure to unplug the machine before going in with the mirror. You have some live terminals and wires under there, and if you had one hand on the machine while the other hand touched a live wire with a metal mirror it could be serious, maybe even fatal.

Hi,
You might as well go the fully monty and order new seals for this and do a proper cleanup. It's common to find blocked up pressurestat tubes because of the scale that collects at the bottom of the boiler. You've got a leak underneath which is most likely the element seal. Look down into the boiler with a small flashlight. You'd be surprised at what you may find. Every time I buy a used machine I completely break it down and replace all the seals and every time the overhaul was warranted.
Good luck.

Thanks for the help, I am learning much about la pavoni from trying to troubleshoot this.

I removed the gunk from inside the pressurestat and went through another heating cycle. I may be wrong about water collecting at the base, because this time I did not see any water dripping underneath. Last time, it could have also been water that escaped out of the safety valve and got on the kitchen counter, since it shoots out a stream of water when the water has boiled.

I was able to figure out how to adjust the pressurestat, by using the help posted here: http://coffee.gurus.net/pavoni/intro/te ... -pressure/. What I did was start the espresso and wait until I can hear the heating element boiling water. Then I wound down the adjusting screw until I can hear the heating element turn off. I hear a little click in the switch as well right before it turns off. However, if I unplug the power cord and wait until the espresso and the water cools down to room temperature, if I leave the adjusting screw the way it was when the heating element turned off previously, if I plug the machine back in, it will not start boiling the water and will stay as if it was turned off, that is until I wind up the adjusting screw and hear that click again. When the heating element starts, it just heats up all the water until it starts boiling and water vapor starts coming out of the safety valve. Do you guys think this means that the pressurestat is broken? Or maybe I'm not adjusting it the right way?