This is a follow-up to some recent threads, and as I'm one of the longer-term members of team Ponte Vecchio I thought I'd start it.

So..

1. Can all the Ponte Vecchio owners please make at lease one post, so we have a list of who and how many we are. And,

2. What has been your experience with the MECHANICAL QUALITY of the machine - mainly condition on arrival, subsequent function, maintenance issues, warranty issues, etc.

I'll post mine ASAP

PC

1. I have enjoyed my Ponte Vecchio Lusso for two years and some months. When I bought it, I also had an Isomac Zaffiro, going on three years. I enjoyed the Lusso so much that I sold the Zaffiro.

2. I ordered my Lusso from Vanelis, after speaking to Gene, the owner, over the phone. The machine arrived serviced and tuned up by Vanelis, double-boxed and with a very nice custom tamper and steaming pitcher included as a thank-you.

Over this time I have had to lube the piston with a few drops of olive oil, replaced a pressurestat (provided under warranty), replaced a boiler cap, about $4 (the original developed a crack below the steam safety vent), and replaced the washer on the steam valve. For regular maintenance I have descaled three times with citric acid (1T/qt water).

When I clean the portafilter every few days with Joe Glo I also pop off the portafilter screen for cleaning, too. It has held up fine to many cycles of removal and installation.

I love my Ponte Vecchio Lusso, and I love the espresso it makes. If I needed a new machine for some reason, I would buy another Ponte Vecchio Lusso.

Just got a SAMA seemingly in good shape and am awaiting arrival of coffee beans to begin making espresso and then caps.

I have a Ponte Vecchio Export. Purchased in January 2008 from The Good Coffee Company. The Manufacturers Plate reads:

La Base s.n.c.
CURA CAPRIGNANO
27010 (PV) ITALY
Tel. 0382.579037
Fax 0382.575938

MOD. EXPORT
No. 661106
110 V~
60 Hz
1200W

Note 1. The 1200 W was overwritten with 800W
Note 2. No measurements of electrical characteristics - yet.

All the mechanical quality issues that I have experienced with this machine and posted on this site have not dampened my enthusiasm for its superbly simple design and good functionality.

Geoffrey

EDIT:
It was suggested that I post a detailed list of issues I have experienced with my PVE and comments on how I addressed them:

1. Joe at The Good Coffee Company(TGCC) tells me that the new machine's group heads spurt coffee everywhere when porta filter is removed from the group
Cause: According to Joe something is wrong/different in the machining of the later machines group heads
Joe's fix: Before shipping the machine Joe replaced the group head with an older version. He also noted that the four 10 mm nuts holding the grouphead had been changed to 9 mm and did not hold as well as the larger nuts.

2. The sight glass lens was broken away from the case - this occurred during shipping and probably caused by a blow or knock to the machine
Cause: The glue that holds the lens failed.
My fix: Joe at TGCC sent me a new sight glass lens free of charge and told me how to install it by bending metal tabs over the lens to hold it. My PVE does not have any metal tabs so I glued the lens back with clear silicone.

3. Drip tray will not stay in its recess
Cause 1. The Drip tray recess and ledges are uneven cast features and the tray ledge is not deep enough to retain the plate
Cause 2. Drip tray warped.
My fixes: Flattened drip tray and hand filed the ledges around the drip tray recess
Note: My attempts improved the situation but did not entirely fix it for the drip tray still slides out of its recess and in doing so has permanently scratched the paint.

4. The base bangs on the counter top if the unit when moved, rocked, or pulling a shot.
Cause 1. The screws holding the rubber feet were not fully inserted. Cause 2. The screw bosses at the rear are recessed more than the front making the rear feet short reducing the clearance to the countertop
My fix: Added several washers under the rear feet and ensured that all the screws were inserted correctly.

5. While heating the machine made a loud buzzing/rattling noise which curiously varied from mild to scary.
Cause 1. Electrical contact jitter because of the loose tab on the Thermal Safety Switch, and sympathetic vibrations.
Cause 2. One boiler mounting screw was loose.
Cause 3. The sight glass backplate appeared to be rubbing against the cabinet.
My fix: Tightened everything appropriately and the noise is now quiet and normal.

6. The case was not perpendicular to the base. It was so bad that it jammed the steam knob and Joe at TGCC had to machine the knob so that it could turn freely.
Cause 1. Overall poor quality of the base and cabinet.
Cause 2. The boiler gasket was not fitted correctly
Cause 3. Case mounting holes misaligned.
Cause 4. The rear mounting bracket not vertical
My fixes: Trimmed the boiler gasket, re- bent the back bracket, realigned the boiler and realigned the case. However, I am unable to fit the fourth screw due to excessive misalignment of the tapped hole and screw hole.

7. One of the electrical tabs on thermal safety switch was almost off its connecting terminal.
Cause: Probably poorly manufactured by the maker of the part?
My fix: Carefully riveted the tab onto its connecting post.

8. All 64 holes and the outer edges of both drip trays have burrs that scratched the paint and are a danger to the user.
Cause: Both drip trays not de-burred in manufacture
My fix: Filed and polished off all the burrs

9. Burrs on the baseplate holes and outer edges - these were really sharp and dangerous and were cutting into the rubber feet.
Cause: Not de-burred in manufacture.
My fix: Filed and machined the burrs off.

10. Fines and coffee getting into the boiler
Cause: I think due to the irregularity of the group head inlet hole which allowed a small back flow into the boiler during multiple pulls.
My fix: Replaced the grouphead

11. The replacement group head had an additional problem. The porta filter would not fit.
My fix: Hand machine the group head helix

12. The fill knob can get stuck between the Pressure Safety Valve and the fill tube.
Comment: This can only be addressed during manufacturing by relocating the fill tube a couple of mm to the right.

13. The replacement grouphead tilts to one side
My fix: I have not done this yet but elongating the four mounting holes should fix it.

14. The Manufactures Plate indicates a boiler heater wattage of 1200 but this was written over with 800. This number has since worn off.
Comment: Is confusing because the stamped number was not negated or removed. I guess the correct Wattage is 800?

I consider it my responsibility as a member of this forum to report these issues accurately, evaluate their causes to the best of my ability, and to offer suggestions to other users on how they may be corrected. I have no other reasons to do so.


Sincerely
Geoffrey

OK, here's a quick rundown of my impressions of the Export, purchased in 2004 (don't know when it was made).

Its a 110V, 800 watt, with a base plate that says "La Base". DOn't know what that means. Currently converted to 220V, but don't know the wattage. It seems to get hotter with the new heating element, so I turned down the Pstat a little.

Things I don't like:
1. The group head came with two small, but distinct, scratches, about 2mm long. They are chromed over, so I suppose they're in the brass, and came from the PV factory that way. Don't know if they chrome them there or buy them from others (if the latter one might expect to see other machines with 45mm groups, but I never have).

2. The white enamel paint came with a couple of very small chips on the edges near the base and under the cupwarmer holder. After three years the rest of the paint seems pretty durable.

3. The paint finish in the hole under the drip tray is uneven - this can't be seen, but it indicates a less-than-perfect finish. The paint on the aluminum base is still in very good condition, so its pretty durable.

4. The metal drip trays came with sharp edges on the drilled holes - I needed to emory cloth them, and no they're fine, but again, less-than-perfect finish.

5. Plastic cup warmer rim - not the nicest quality, but it is the only plastic on the machine, excepting the lever/pf handles and the cheapo PV label (which isn't really ugly, but its kind of cheap).

6. As others have noted elsewhere the metal boiler case does not fit the impeccable tolerances. The imperfections in mine can't be noticed, but others have had worse.

7. As a spring lever it operates at lower brew pressures than a manual lever. This means it really excels with fresher beans.

8. The small group size is best for 1-1.5 oz ristrettos; 2 oz, traditional doubles require 3-4 lever pulls, and this may not be optimum.

On the plus side:
1. I really like the espresso (not a mechanical aspect, but oh well). It is very easy to operate, and very versatile as far as brew-ratio, because the double basket can take a wide range of doses 10-16g+.

2. NO maintenance or operating problems whatsoever with my machine after some 1000-2000 shots. I did replace the piston seals after three years, but I think this is because they dried out during storage. Otherwise its just been olive oil on the group seal, piston linkage, and rubber suction feet.

3. The suction feet really work, and are still in good shape. These, added to the fact that the machine seems to be designed to be well-balanced during pulling, makes it ok for one-handed operation.

4. The group design is less prone to overheating than are other home levers.

5. Good steaming, done while the shot is being pulled.

6. My Mater Pstat, at least, does not seem to have had any problems so far.

7. The thermal cut-off works, as i found out when I foolishly turned the machine on without water once. DONT EVEN PLUG IT IN WITHOUT WATER IN IT!!!!

8. With some care and basic mechanical aptitude it can be maintained at home. Even as far as replacing the heating element and piston seals.

9. It is very cheap to maintain too.

That's it so far,

PC

I have had my PV Export since early March 2007 (here's the thread documenting its arrival http://www.home-barista.com/levers/another-ponte-vecchio-export-applies-to-lmwdp-t3519.html).

My Export came from Gensaco in upstate New York. The red paint on the boiler cover had a slight chip at the base, which I covered with red nail polish as soon as I got the machine. That same polish is still there. The only thing not still as new is that a small chunk of paint flecked off the aluminum base under the drip tray. The boiler on my machine must be slightly askew, since the boiler cover had to be mounted on a slight angle. While this does not detract from the aesthetics at all, I suspect it would make removal and reinstallation of the boiler cover a bit trickier than otherwise.

Very small issues, and the Export is functioning the same today as when I first got it. However, as it is my cottage machine and backup for when the Brewtus needs a bit of R&R, it sometimes sits idle for a month, and then gets pressed into full-time duty.

I have no complaints about quality or workmanship.

Mark

It took me two tries to get my Lusso. The first arrived single-boxed and in horrible condition. The second was double boxed and looked much better. I'm not all too impressed with some of the details of the build, such as the following minor issues:

-Spring and hot water wands are not perfectly aligned in the holes. Therefore, they're squeezing against the rubber ring around them where they are supposed to be centered
-A few bolt mismatches where the group is mounted to the faceplate on the inside. Not a functional problem, but just sloppy.
-Some sheet metal not perfectly formed (cup tray lip is bent outward at one corner).
-The PF basket spring... isn't a spring. This is a known issue with all small group home levers as far as I know, and I was aware of this when purchasing. I've only dropped the basket into the trash a *few* times.
-The boiler had evidence that it was tested in Italy in the form of some white deposits. According to 1st-Line, this isn't scale, and the machine has been working properly despite their presence.

And on the bright side:
-The espresso is delicious
-The steam is plentiful
-I can empty the boiler and refill it as much as I want (though I only do so when I see the low level cutoff)
-The low water level cutoff has saved me SO many times! The sight glass is recessed in the machine and not as obvious as it is on the Pavoni, Elektra MCAL, or Gaggia Achille (don't know about the Export) so I don't have a perfect record of checking it.
-Emptying the boiler is easy and a nice way of cleaning the group and purging the wands. Just heat the machine to a few tenths of a bar, shut it off, and drain either by holding down the lever or through the hot water wand. This gets out close to all of the water.
-Did I mention how delicious the espresso is?

One thing I cannot get: my first pull generally flows from both spouts evenly, but subsequent pulls are mostly from one spout or the other. Any hints? (Maybe a video and a separate thread might be more appropriate)

I've never done any disassembling or lubricating because I've:
1. Had the machine for only two months
2. Never pulled the lever on a cold machine

Others seem to say that pulling off the shower screen is an easy and harmless task, so I might try it soon.

Thanks for starting the thread PC!

I've gone thru most if not all of the threads concerning the SAMA/PVE and two conclusions that I draw are:

1. Single pull espressos are out of this world.

2. Multiple pulls might leave something to be desired. I got my SAMA with caps in mind and although I plan to learn the machine thoroughly despite all of the variations in pulling technique, I may see an upgrade in the future, an upgrade to the Olympia Cremina that can pull a single shot measuring 1 1/2 oz. And so although looking to get higher volume for caps, I feel that the SAMA is a great place to begin this flavorful adventure!

I think the Lusso may be 1200 watts. Maybe they put a Lusso plate on GB's Export?

RE: shot volume, I wouldn't give up so fast on 1-1.5o shots (especiallty at the ~$1000 upgrade price).

The PV pretty good cappuccinos in my NP brown-and-white cappa cup every morning.

PC

Someone is offering a recently rebuilt 67 Cremina with new paint job for $500. Very tempting.

Peacecup how many oz are you pulling for your caps?

Today was father's day in Sweden - here's a macchiato in my new Ittalia cup:

PC

I would definitely not dissuade you from a $500 Cremina in today's market. I suppose its easier to get more consistent shots with one vs two lever pulls. Besides, its really great to have both a manual and spring lever. My manual is a Caravel (see the Ararax Caravel thread). I've pulled some really amazing shots with it, and I suppose the Cremina would be better, or at least as good. Manual levers are definitely better with older beans.

I've posted some video of the PV into shot glasses, in the 1-1.5 oz range, but I have pulled 2-oz shots. How good are they? Well, I've never rated them, but they're better than your average coffee shop espresso. With a full dose and good beans they can be very good, but I honestly have never compared them to another machine head to head.

PC

aindfan wrote:

The low water level cutoff has saved me SO many times! The sight glass is recessed in the machine and not as obvious as it is on the Pavoni, Elektra MCAL, or Gaggia Achille (don't know about the Export) so I don't have a perfect record of checking it.

Going out on a limb here, I only mean this in a helpful way—but I would suggest you fill your machine at a regular time every day, or some such regular cue, in addition to checking the boiler water level gauge, in order to keep it safely full. If I remember correctly I read years ago that safety cut-off mechanisms have a limited cycle life, and should be used more in the occasional emergency sense. With multiple (?) trips the safety mechanism should be replaced.

My Ponte Vecchio Lusso is rated at 1200 watts, according to the nameplate on the base.

tjkoko wrote:I've gone thru most if not all of the threads concerning the SAMA/PVE and two conclusions that I draw are:

1. Single pull espressos are out of this world.

2. Multiple pulls might leave something to be desired. I got my SAMA with caps in mind and although I plan to learn the machine thoroughly despite all of the variations in pulling technique, I may see an upgrade in the future, an upgrade to the Olympia Cremina that can pull a single shot measuring 1 1/2 oz. And so although looking to get higher volume for caps, I feel that the SAMA is a great place to begin this flavorful adventure!

I brew 2-pull shots almost exclusively with my Export. There is no blonding, and they can be spectacular. A 2-pull capp from an Export can be extremely sweet, and while it could not be mistaken for a pump-machine capp, an Export capp can hold its own against anything out there.

I think a nice complement to a spring-lever machine would be a nice HX or DB.

Mark

I've had my Sama Export for about a year and a half now. Purchased on ebay on the cheap, it is probably over thirty years old, but lightly used, as most of the chrome plating on the inside of the portafilter still remained at the time.

After initial cleaning and a few shots, a steam leak appeared at the top of the sight glass, remedied (after some disassembly) by tightening a loose nut. About a year later, the washer in the steam valve needed replacing. Now the sight glass leak is back, either because of the nut or a deteriorated o-ring.

Update: 02/20/09- Recently re-tightened the sight glass nut, and performance is back up to par, sans hissing. I'm not sure what causes the nut to loosen; it certainly ain't pump vibration. Also re-lubed the piston shaft for the second time; I use mineral oil instead of olive oil. Is that why I don't I don't achieve those Peacecuppian volumes of crema
My noon macchiato- not the prettiest, but tasty:


All in all, it makes good, but small, shots of espresso, and steams milk like a champ.

Ed

The PVL 2 group is celebrating Birthday One. 12 months with no mechanical issues. Simple general maintenance has kept this machine running smoothly on a daily basis for the past year. Purchased from 1st-Line. Extra baskets, gaskets, dispersion screens and portafilter purchased from Vanelis.

Not a beautiful machine or as finely built like the Elektra Micro Casa a Leva that sits close to it. But easier to pull consistent quality shots.

Dogshot stated:

...I brew 2-pull shots almost exclusively with my Export. There is no blonding, and they can be spectacular. A 2-pull capp from an Export can be extremely sweet...

Dogshot, that's certainly reassuring to hear. To attain higher volume, what I may do is have an extra basket (the larger one) already prefilled so that after the first double is pulled, the spent basket will be replaced with the unspent one - into the pf - for another pull or two.

You'll need to wait a few seconds at least before removing the PF - otherwise you'll get a "sneeze". These don't seem as bad as I've heard they are with other machines. If you remove the PF slowly and listen for steam escaping you can tell when its ready.

Alternately, you can pull the lever down about 1/4 way, creating a slight vacuum over the puck and allowing it to be removed sooner.

PC

I have a bright-red PV Export that I bought recently from Joe at The Good Coffee Co. I like using the machine, and I like how it looks, but I had to do some work to get it into proper shape: crooked-boiler-on-pv-export-t8186.html

I have only pulled about a dozen shots so far (doubles, for capp's), but one thing that really stands out for me is the milk-steaming capability -- it's great!

I've been using 3 pulls, but I think I'll try some 2-pull shots and see how they compare.

My base-plate, like others, was printed with "1200 Watts", but modified by hand with marker to say "800".

The poor fit of the drip-tray grate is probably the most annoying aspect of my machine: the slightest nudge knocks it out of the insanely-shallow depression meant to hold it in place (and, yes, I've tried each of the two grates, in each of the two possible orientations). Sometimes even just putting a cup down on the grate causes it to slip out of place! I definitely plan to do some sort of mod there.

My machine arrived with the group head out of whack, in addition to the boiler and boiler-cover issues I described in the thread I link to above. The group head had recent machining marks inside, indicating that Joe had, indeed, installed a new (or at least different) group head and modified it to fit the current portafilter. The whole group head was off vertical, tilted to one side rather noticeably. It's fairly easy to remove the group (be careful not to scratch all the chrome); doing so, I discovered that the group water-fill pipe was bent to one side and also back (or maybe forward; I can't recall), so that it contacted the boiler inside wall, or the heater element. Bending this pipe a bit allowed me to re-attach the group head with no sideways tilt, and without the pipe touching anything inside the boiler.

Yesterday I stuffed some fiberglass thermal insulation around the boiler, because I like to conserve energy. It might also very slightly shorten the warm-up time. Anybody else have thoughts or experiences with insulating a PVE or similar machine? I know it's a not-infrequent mod for some pump machines, and some even come that way from the maker.

Which reminds me: has anybody measured temperatures on an Export? Any kind: temp of boiler surface, temp of brew water at various times, temp of group head bell surface, etc., etc. I have not, but plan to do the standard "styrofoam cup test" soon.

-Sean