Sean, I insulated the PVL (pictures posted on another post, I think in the lever smackdown thread). Couple reasons. 1st to reduce the heater element cycling frequency and a small energy savings. I have the unit on a timer to kick on about 30 minutes before I awake in the AM. Experienced heat damage on the wiring & other plastic that was not heat resistant on the old HX/E61 machine(on 24/7). The PVL has minimal wiring and minimal control parts. Insulation is probably not critical. Also insulation deadens what noise the PVL creates when the heating element is active. An unintentional benefit. Dropped the boiler cap one day. The insulation prevented it from falling down into the case. Maybe there is not enough room anyways. There was enough space around the circumference of the boiler to allow a 2nd layer of insulation (~15mm total of radiant foil lined ThermaGuard). For continuous on mode during the day insulation would probably be beneficial. For my morning personal use it was just an easy DIY modification.

EDIT:
Narc, in reading the evaluations of the PVE at the various threads, it seems that its precursor the SAMA was better constructed and much better fitted. I have no issues with the fit of the metal inserts for both the drip tray and cup warmer. Despite a tiny bit of play, they both fit well and fail to get knocked out of place. Doesn't seem to be any internal problems at this point either.

Sean_in_SF:

Greetings and I lived in El Cerrito for 11 years and graduated from UCB in French, the only graduating male at that time. That aside, for your triple pulls, what weight of coffee are you using and what volume are you getting?

And all THAT aside, I just scored a recently rebuilt '67 Oly Cremina with a factory Lemon color paint job and forsee a smackdown between the two machines in the near future. This is certainly gonna' be a real adventure. Thanks for the addiction!!!!! Vatch out, Black Cat.

Great thread!

Three shots every week day, as many as I can get during the weekend I really enjoy working with the Lusso.

I purchased the Lusso from 1st-Line and their customer service is great! Within a week of receiving the machine the heating element blew up, and 1st-Line promptly sent me a new one. It has been shots away ever since.

In my opinion the build quality on my machine is just ok. Things that have been mentioned already, the wand alignments are a little off, one of the PF's threads on better than the other, the single baskets (Which I don't really use) don't fit the PF's very well, and finally, the stick-on name badge is really, really, cheap looking!

Would I buy the machine again? YES!!! The shots are amazing, and I really enjoy the ritual.

-Steve

I should mention a positive thing about the build of the Lusso (relative to the other lever machine that I tried, the Gaggia Achille): it doesn't leak, and the only 4 pipes that exist are metal, welded to the boiler.

Also: unlike the Gaggia Achille, the steam and hot water valves work and do not leak. That's not to say that they're *great*, but they work. I wonder if it's possible to attache star-shaped knobs?

tjkoko wrote:EDIT:
... it seems that its precursor the SAMA was better constructed and much better fitted. I have no issues with the fit of the metal inserts for both the drip tray and cup warmer. Despite a tiny bit of play, they both fit well and fail to get knocked out of place. Doesn't seem to be any internal problems at this point either...:

The boiler filler cap was what I dropped. Drip tray and cup warmer on the PVL I own has fit equal to the other machines I have owned ('81 Gaggia Coffee,'02 Isomac Tea and MCal). The PVL does suffer in cosmetic fit and finish. Both my water and steam wands are not centered perfectly in the hole or the hole was drilled off on the front casing plate. Internally the machine looks well built. As I noted in a review of the machine the water sight glass is mounted too low relative to the position of the boiler. Auto cut off switch will kick in before the water level reaches the bottom of the sight glass and ~300ml of additional water can be added after the sight glass is filled. The 2 group Lusso uses the same case/frame as the single group. They just squeezed in the 2nd group. Split the water and thermosyphon line. The water wand slightly obstructs the view of the boiler pressure gauge. No real big issue in the function of the machine. Just a poor reflection of the design and quality of finish. The thermo stability, ability to pull consistent quality shots, forgiving nature and so far reliability makes this machine a keeper.

PVL must have had a few SAMA parts left around. The plastic guard protecting the electrical components is stamped SAMA. Considering the quality issues that have been posted I would only purchase a PVL from a dealer with well respected customer service.

tjkoko -- sorry for my late reply; I've been busy elsewhere lately. Some other PVE users, esp. Peacecup, can comment with much more authority on triple-pull shots, but I can say that I've been using Peacecup's routine (if I recall it correctly, that is): I measure beans by volume, using the PV metal scoop (two scoops). Sometimes I use slightly less -- I'm still experimenting. I have not yet measured shot volume, but I'm trying for a double, and I get what looks like 2 oz. Need to measure, though. I'm also still fine-tuning my grind; each pull (that is, the spring-powered movement after I released the lever) was rather fast until I tightened the grind a half-click on my Cunill Tranquilo.

Ciao a tutti,

I've had my PV Lusso 2-group for just over a month now, so I'm ready to make a few observations:

Minor cosmetics:

The steam and hot water wands are not centered in their holes, and the bends of the wands are not quite symmetrical, either. However, this does not affect their function, and I'm not about to re-bend chromed tubing.

A bit of rough paint on the bottom frame is visually unnoticeable, but you can feel it; a blob of paint dried against a table top, leaving an "edge". The workmanship of the inner drip tray & the cup warming tray is not exactly pristine, either, but no one sees the inner surfaces I'm referring to, and function is unaffected.

Functional oddities:

The left and right group heads do not warm up at the same rate; the left head feels slightly cooler than the right when they warm up together. The left head can be warmed up further by flushing more water (1-2 cups) through it. For me this asymmetry is not a deal-breaker; I like to experiment with different brew temps, and this allows that without my having to re-adjust the p-stat.

The sight glass has not been a reliable indicator of the water volume. Jim at 1st Line speculated that there could be debris in the tubing, but the problem persists after descaling. My current workaround: after turning off the Lusso, I release some pressure through the steam wand, and note the level in the sight glass at that time -- I disregard any later rise of the level after the boiler goes cold.

The cast-in spouts of the portafilters are too small; post-shot dripping goes on too long (long after I've taken the cups away). I'm having EspressoParts NW chop the bottoms off my PFs next month.

As is well-known, the wands leak a bit if the knobs are not closed tightly. That's a minor irritant; the drip tray's poor drainage (from too few holes) is more irksome by far. Also, because the wands are given an extra 45 degree bend outward, to accommodate the 2 group heads, the steam tip is in line with the power switch and the hot water wand is nearly over the right edge of the drip tray. So far this has not presented any serious problem -- but I would not have designed it this way, that's for sure.

Ciao,
Wayne

peacecup wrote: My manual is a Caravel (see the Ararax Caravel thread). I've pulled some really amazing shots with it, and I suppose the Cremina would be better, or at least as good. Manual levers are definitely better with older beans.

PC

Having owned both, if I was only going to do straight espresso shots I'd save $150 and find a reconditioned Caravel. Better heat management, and better shots on the Caravel I believe. If making a significant number of milk drinks, the Cremina would be a better choice as long as you're making only a couple of drinks at a time in order to manage temperature.

I need to add that after three years, the paint on the bottom of my drip tray is beginning to peel. It always had some rough spots, and I guess some coffee got under the paint eventually. Its not a big deal, and probably will take years to become noticible if left as is, but I'll probably prime and touch it up.

PC

roastaroma wrote:....

The sight glass has not been a reliable indicator of the water volume. Jim at 1st Line speculated that there could be debris in the tubing, but the problem persists after descaling. My current workaround: after turning off the Lusso, I release some pressure through the steam wand, and note the level in the sight glass at that time -- I disregard any later rise of the level after the boiler goes cold.

The cast-in spouts of the portafilters are too small; post-shot dripping goes on too long (long after I've taken the cups away). I'm having EspressoParts NW chop the bottoms off my PFs next month.

As is well-known, the wands leak a bit if the knobs are not closed tightly. That's a minor irritant; the drip tray's poor drainage (from too few holes) is more irksome by far. Also, because the wands are given an extra 45 degree bend outward, to accommodate the 2 group heads, the steam tip is in line with the power switch and the hot water wand is nearly over the right edge of the drip tray. So far this has not presented any serious problem -- but I would not have designed it this way, that's for sure.

Ciao,
Wayne

Agree with Wayne's statements about the Lusso 2.

After using almost on a daily basis for ~1.5 years even with all the quirks and not Elektra quality of build I like the Lusso. The sight glass is semi useless. Mounted too low. Auto shut off will kick in before the water level in the glass reaches the bottom. I normally add ~250ml more water after the level reaches full. Still plenty of head space in the boiler. It is a tight squeeze with two groupheads, water wand, steam wand. PV took the single group and basically split the water line and added a 2nd group. I don't notice by touch any difference in temp between the two groups after the normal pre-pull routine. I flush both groups after bleeding off any false pressure via the steam wand and let the unit sit for at least another 5-10 minutes. . Had a bottomless filter conversion by an H-B forum member. Prefer using it over the stock portafilter. Should have had both converted. The stock design due to the "flaw" noted above require you to pop off the filter basket and shake/wipe the interior prior to loading up a fresh dose. It retains a significant amount of liquid from the previous pull. If this lever machine pulled inconsistent or routine poor shots it would be placed on the 4 sale page. But it's pretty much an idiot proof of a lever machine. Easiest most forgiving lever machine I've so far used.

Just got my Ponte Vecchio Lusso (single group) last week from 1st-Line Equipment and have used it once or twice a day since. So far, so good.

No problems with the machine when I got it: Double-boxed, with lovely powder-blue packing peanuts all around the inner box. No noticeable defects anywhere that I could see after I unpacked it (I got the chrome one). Some white residue around the inside of the threaded pipe stub on the boiler (where the cap goes), which I assume was left over from whatever testing they do before they ship the machine. Flushed the boiler and group a couple of times, and that seemed to have taken care of it.

No glaring workmanship issues, and the mechanical quality seems fine.

So far, it works great, although being new to the process, I'm still figuring out the grind vs. dosage vs. amount of tamping.

Speaking of tamping, the tamper provided is odd at best: As others have mentioned, one end is too big and the other end is too small to fit either basket. And speaking of baskets, the smaller one (the single) didn't fit very well into the portafilter, but that, too, appears to be a common problem, and I won't use the smaller basket much anyway. I did get it to work by heating the portafilter and cooling the basket (or maybe it was the other way around).

Performance has been good so far: Valves don't seem to leak, pressure is good and consistent, and sight glass, although low, works well and is useful. I haven't taken it apart or made any adjustments, so I haven't really gotten into the guts. Haven't needed to so far.

So it's been great so far, and no complaints about how it looks or how it works.

Ciao Ray,

Glad to hear it's working out OK for you. My boiler's fill port also has those mineral deposits -- God knows what sort of hard water they have in Pavia (the factory's location). No worries, though.

For the price of a mass-produced tamper, you can get a custom Thor Tamper made for your 45 mm basket. Les knows about these old SAMA levers, so you can expect a perfect fit. And you need not have the tamper weighted, as the Lusso works very well with a light tamp style.

I've noticed that the Lusso is very responsive to dose & tamp changes. From my POV this is a good thing, as it really puts me in touch with the Process. It's kinda like flying, in that you're juggling a lot of variables in a seat-of-the-pants way.

BTW, you might find it helpful to lower the p-stat setting, as it's usually set too high at the factory. Removing the cover is irksome, but you probably won't have to do it often.

@ Noel: Grazie for extolling the Lusso's virtues -- I forgot to mention, I really like this machine, too!

Happy Brewing,
Wayne

I've had my PV Lusso for a few months. I use it daily for my after work cappuccino. My little reward for a hard day's work.

I bought it from Vaneli's and had some serious issues that seem to be related to the piston seals. Since it was new, I called Vaneli's and they shipped me a replacement unit very quickly. Unfortunately, that unit had issues of its own. So I took the group off the replacement unit and put it on the original unit. Reassembled the modified replacement unit and sent it back to Vaneli's. Success. The machine worked (and has continued to work) perfectly.

After the initial frustration I have been able to get consistently good cappuccinos every day.

I'm still unclear about some of the process issues (number of strokes for doubles, not fracturing the puck, and getting microfoam from the three-holed wand), but it's getting better. A level dose on the deep double basket seems to create lots of headroom even with a light tamp. As a result the pucks are usually pretty soggy. The single tapers so quickly that the tamper bottoms out on the ridge unless it is over dosed. Then it takes a long time to pull and the puck shows dry spots.

I agree that workmanship is rough, but I like to think that this means that it was individually constructed and is less likely to fail (I said "I like to think", so let me go on thinking this).

I do, however, enjoy my PVL. I am quite pleased that I got it.

Note: Some people comment that you don't need the low water cutoff. One day my wife turned on the machine so it would be hot for me when I got home (she's a sweetie). Well, the steam valve was open and it started blowing steam out like crazy. Eventually it boiled off all the water and shut itself off. I came home from work nearly an hour later than normal to an empty, but not burned out, machine. We also have had the experience of cleaning hard boiled eggs off the ceiling on several occasions. Either I get the shutoff or get rid of the wife!

Ciao Dave,

Too bad Vaneli's dropped the Ponte Vecchio -- maybe it was more hassle than they wanted to deal with. But at least you got your Lusso sorted out!

Re packing the double basket, I stopped leveling off before the tamp, and instead I overdose and tamp the mound; fortunately it flattens out evenly. For me it's a big improvement; the headroom's just right, and the puck stays put & won't channel during the Fellini (the easiest multi-pull style to master).

In addition, I've found that a well-packed double basket can withstand 2, 3, or even 4 pre-infusion "half pulls" -- I let the handle rise all the way only once, at the very end. Ristretto City!

Re the single, I agree that updosing will result in slower pulls -- but adjusting the grind a bit coarser should compensate. The Lusso makes good singles (rare among espresso machines), but they're not quite like doubles -- and that's OK.

Happy Brewing,
Wayne

This once obscure machine, (prior to raves from this forum), can now be found at many online dealers and for sale at retail outlets like Blue Bottle Coffee at Mint Plaza in San Francisco.

Good evening all. I posted a review/summary along these lines not to long ago in this forum:
http://www.home-barista.com/lever...enance-t10373.html
After spending some time scouring HB for PV information, I have noticed that PV owners seem to have their share of issues with the machines. No doubt the representation is disproportionate as one tends to be quiet when all is right with the world. A poll would be interesting: Fit/finish, quality, reliability, failures, never had a problem, etc...I like to fiddle by nature and tend to always be on the lookout for a project, so the problems I had with my PV never bothered me. In fact, now that I have had it apart and know that I can easily fix or replace any issues that it may have, I like it that much more. I love manual machines and really have no desire to own anything more complex. I have improved the appearance of my PV and just recently completed fabricating a pretty cool rusticated tamper out of 3point hitch parts and a bit of wood that was milled in 1842. When I get a chance I will post a pic or two.

Fullsack wrote:This once obscure machine, (prior to raves from this forum), can now be found at many online dealers and for sale at retail outlets like Blue Bottle Coffee at Mint Plaza in San Francisco.

Thanks in large part to DrJim, who doesn't frequent this forum anymore, and HPerry, who frequents the Good Coffee CO. in Seattle, who have been carrying Sama/PV for years. They brought my attention to PV when I was looking for a lever machine. I had to decide between a used Cremina (project), and a new Pavoni or PV. Reading DrJim's posts about his Lusso helped me decide. Hal told me where to find PV in Seattle.

I do hope the retailers will inform PV about problems with the machines, so that quality control can be improved. These forums should help potential buyers be aware of issues they may face. The factory does answer email and phone calls, but I suppose its best to go through the retailers.

After 3 1/2 years posting about the PV I'm still very pleased with the espresso, the "individual" build quality is still ok. As Indy notes, these machines are so simple that they should last a lifetime with just routine repair and maintenance (use of automobile jacks for piston re-insertion not recommended!).

With the long list of PV users now on HB, it would be good if someone started a new "PV tips and techniques" thread.

PC

Linthorn wrote:Note: Some people comment that you don't need the low water cutoff. One day my wife turned on the machine so it would be hot for me when I got home (she's a sweetie). Well, the steam valve was open and it started blowing steam out like crazy. Eventually it boiled off all the water and shut itself off. I came home from work nearly an hour later than normal to an empty, but not burned out, machine. We also have had the experience of cleaning hard boiled eggs off the ceiling on several occasions. Either I get the shutoff or get rid of the wife!

The Export does not have a low-water cutoff. And I, with no help from SWMBO, managed to run the boiler dry twice. The first time the thermal cutoff flipped, and just needed to reset it. The second time the cutoff did not flip (maybe I need to replace it?). The boiler went dry, and all of the scale burned off. There was not much scale because I have always used very soft water, but I had to rinse the boiler a number of times to get all of the little black flakes out. No problems resulted from the experience.

Not only have the Ponte Vecchio machines been showing up in more retail outlets lately, but the old SAMA Exports are fetching fairly handsome prices on Ebay. I've seen three sell recently for about $450, $600 and $350. The $600 machine was snapped up on a buy-it-now really quickly. By comparison, two Bezzera levers (a Famiglia and a single group commercial) went for about $450; both looked to be in very good condition. Also by comparison, the approx $55 that I payed for my SAMA two years ago, with a bonus SAMA knockbox. It wasn't all that long ago that brand new ones went for about $350.

Of course, I don't think they'll ever reach Cremina territory.

Ed Bugel

PS: I was mighty tempted by that commercial Bezzera

Dear All,
I just registered as LMWDP member 254, background story provided with my first post over that thread.
Since PV does not have a dealer in the Asia-Pacific region therefore I bought my Stainless+Chrome 220V Lusso 2 group directly from Ponte Vechhio, Laura corresponded and arranged shipment of the unit to me over the internet. I have been playing with the PVL for about a week now and here are some of my observations:

The unit arrived as others have described but not double boxed, luckily FedEx had the foresight to shrinkwrap the rather thin carton box to a pallet thus ensuring the unit arrived in relatively ok shape.

My psat was set at around 1.2 Bar and I left it there, but I do notice that mine would "drift" a bit over time: When first powered up it will reach 1.2 in around 8-10min, bleed-off false pressure, then another 8-10 min to reach 1.2 again. However in about 30 min, the pressure indicator would drop to around 1.1 and remain there for the rest of the day if I don't switch my machine off.

One of the portafilters has thicker lips than the other, therefore the chrome got scratched off at the contact points with group head.

I am contacting a machine shop to drill more holes onto my drip tray, they really are spaced too far apart.

Build quality is at the rougher end of the scale but tolerable - no exposed sharp metal edges but blemishes from the chrome plating process can be spotted on the fascia plate. By the way, are these machines still under patent protection? With my access to machine shops (I am building trains in China) here I can probably rebuild the whole thing at half the price but with much better quality control. Very tempting to do as a side project if I ever find the time to do it.

So far the pulls are ok but not great yet, I am still trying to get used to dose+grind adjustment (I only use leveling,light tamps) but dosing 14g into the double filters seems to work better than 11-12g, which is recommended by other users here on H-B. I find the latter to yield either a watery flow (too coarse a grind) or a stuck pull (too fine), any suggestions? I use a Mazzer Mini and dose directly into the filters.
I will try to master the double filter before attempting to play with the single.

Steaming is incredibly fast and rich, much better than my Giotto.

Since I have only been spending a week with the new guy therefore I cannot say whether I prefer my Giotto or the Lusso, but I do enjoy fussing over this tiny little machine every morning.