Hi, new member here.

I'm planning to get a new machine early next year, and the shortlist is down to two: the Ponte Vecchio Lusso and Export.

Does anyone have experience of using both? I'm mainly interested in the quality of the espresso produced.

I know only really need the Export since I am the only one in the house who drinks espressos, about four or five a day. The Lusso seems abit of overkill, especially as the only one imported into Australia is the two group version, and costs about 50% more than the Export. Steam and hot water would rarely be used.

From the pictures I've seen, the Lusso looks good, whereas the Export seems to be a bit aesthetically challenged.

Also, it is impractical for me to go and see the distributor, as they're about eight hours drive away.

So, anyone, how do they compare purely for espressos?

Better temperature control on the Lusso. Do a search on the forums. There is a ton of information on both.

I spent most of the weekend looking through various forums. I think I've managed to get a pretty good idea how each works. The temperature control of the export shouldn't be an issue: turn it on ten minutes before you want a drink, and off when its done. Repeat throughout the day as required. The Lusso I understand is designed to be left on all day, but has a longer warm up time (not sure how long).

What I was interested in hearing about was from anyone who had used both and how they compare side by side.

R

I know that you are seeking info on shot quality here and both machines have strong proponents for the shots on both machines but if this is helpful, let me address the two machines from strictly technician's viewpoint.

The Lusso has a much more complicated electrical system. Low water circuit and electronic brain box. We have had a recent uptick in the purchasing of the electronic brain for the Lusso and some recent queries about electrical gremlins on the machine. The Export has a very simple electrical control....pstat, switch, pilot light and heating element....no overly sophisticated electronics involved. The Lusso uses a Mater pstat and the export a CEME pstat (only the CEME will fit the Export due to the tight geometry under the machine). The Lusso pstat is easier to set and change by removing the cover and running the machine while monitoring the manometer to get it set up...the Export requires a test pressure gauge of some kind (steam wand) to set the pstat. The groups on the two machines are basically the same and use the same piston seals. Maintaining the groups on the two machines is about the same....both require removing the group for seal change and clamping etc to remove the piston.
One issue with the Export is the heating element plate bolts. These bolts are very hard to get to and they are steel and can tend to rust. If you get an Export plan to change the bolts out for stainless steel at first opportunity and lube them with anti seize compound before installation as the older machines almost always show some bolt rust and these bolts will almost always snap off requiring drilling and tapping.
Other than the much discussed points of the Lusso build it seems most Lusso owners are happy with their machines and most Export owners are fine with theirs, but as a repairman the Lusso is easier to work on but also has more to go wrong.
Just some thoughts.

Doug-
Interesting points re: maintainability of the Lusso.
One has to remember this as a consideration, especially considering that some of us get into lever machines for their simplicity.

All in all it becomes a choice for the end user to make.

@ Orphanespresso: very helpful, thanks.

How completely does the Export have to be dismantled to get to the heating element plate bolts? http://www.cafe-kultur.com/exploded-view-pv/ has some diagrams but they're not that useful for this.

The Lusso uses a Mater pstat and the export a CEME pstat (only the CEME will fit the Export due to the tight geometry under the machine).

NOT TRUE! My Export definitely has a Mater, so they do fit, although PV may have changed the original part since I bought mine around 2003 (I meant 2005!):

How completely does the Export have to be dismantled to get to the heating element plate bolts? http://www.cafe-kultur.com/exploded-view-pv/ has some diagrams but they're not that useful for this.

You can see a couple of the four boiler plate bolts in the photo as well (partly hidden by the black base). It is NOT rocket science to replace them, but you'll need a minimum of mechanical skills at least. I have not replaced mine yet, but I did not notice ANY rust when I opened it after three years of use.

To get to the step you see in the photo you will require the ADVANCED TOOLKIT (i.e. a flathead screwdriver) to remove FOUR SCREWS. From there you will have the arduous task of removing TWO MORE screws before you reach the boiler plate. Not to mention you will need to UNPLUG two or three electrical connectors.

The Lusso pstat is easier to set and change by removing the cover and running the machine while monitoring the manometer to get it set up...the Export requires a test pressure gauge of some kind (steam wand) to set the pstat.

Although this is true, one can more or less go by feel, (as long as its not too high). I drilled a hole in the base plate, and now its a simple as turning the machine on its side and using a screwdriver.

PC

Thanks peacecup

Replacing the heating element plate bolts looks like it should be within my capabilities! If the whole machine had to be taken apart, that would have been a bit offputting. The pstat adjustment hole in the baseplate is a good idea.

Will probably go for the Export unless anyone comes up with a good reason not to. I'll be able to afford a roaster then....


R

Rho,

Like Peacecup I also drilled a hole thru the baseplate to directly access the PStat with a screw driver. In addition I obtained another boiler fill cap and fitted a pressure gauge to it. So adjusting the pressure is simple. Once set I revert to the standard boiler cap because the PVE top does not fit with the gauge cap in place. Now I only use the pressure gauge for periodic checking because my PVE's pressure seems to drift very little.

I also use temperature sensing strips which read in both Fahrenheit and Celsius, one attached near the top of the grouphead and one near the bottom where the tapered section starts. These are invaluable for shot temperature control.

One variable when comparing your machine to U.S.A. machine is it will most likely have a different boiler heating element for Australia's 240 Volt electric power. It may not be an issue and may possibly be an advantage for temperature stability. Maybe Peacecup can share some wisdom on this for If I remember correctly he changed the heating element for 120 V on his PVE to one for 240 V when he moved from the U.S.A. to Europe.

Good luck Mate
Geoffrey

Edit: My PVE also has a Mater Pressure Stat. I also changed the boiler mounting nuts to stainless steel for the same reasons Doug mentioned.

The main reasons for the Lusso would be temperature control during sessions when you pull multiple shots, bigger boiler capacity for the same reason, different footprint which is heavier and more stable (although the Export is quite stable compared with a Pavoni), boiler pressure gauge, larger drip tray and cup warmer, can be left on (but takes longer to heat up). For me, I very seldom use any of these features, but that does not mean I would not like the luxury of having a machine on a ready all the time. If I knew I had the space and would not need to move it around much I might prefer the Lusso, although I might want to de-brain it a bit.

GB, thanks for the post. I've been meaning to order those temp. strips. I know you did some group temperature tests a while ago. If you watch the temp strips how does the group heat over the long term, both when sitting idle on, and during and after pulling a shot. I suppose that pulling the shot heats the group considerably, but I would be interested to see how fast it cools afterward.

Where did you get the boiler-cap pressure gauge, and did you see any rust when you replaced the bolts? Probably time for me to do it as well. Plus, my piston seals have not been lubed for over two years (although they appear to be working very well - I'm not sure how often they really require lubing in fact).

I can't recall any major difference in heating with the 220 element, except that it was, and still is, quieter. I seem to remember the 110 element making little noises.

My mater p-stat is five years old and still appears to be working well. I guess it drifts occasionally, and I need to adjust it a little.

One important consideration is the the Export pstat is on the bottom of the boiler, so particulates will accumulate there. Once I figured this out I began to take the precaution of completely emptying the boiler each morning, and before doing so, I turn it upside down a few times to dislodge any particles that might be sitting in the pstat.

PC