Ponte Vecchio Export temperature

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wintoid
Posts: 86
Joined: 12 years ago

#1: Post by wintoid »

I'm getting close to being happy with the coffee I'm making for the first time really. The final piece of the puzzle I haven't worked out is the temperature of the coffee coming out of the Export.

Until recently, I've been drinking milk drinks, so hadn't realised that the espresso produced is actually colder than the espresso I've been served by baristas in Central London, even though I warm the cups et cetera.

Am I right in thinking that the Export has just one adjustment, and that this will increase the steam pressure as well as the temperature of the espresso? My steam pressure seems fine (I even get a little leakage from the steam wand when the valve is closed sometimes).

I'm slightly wary of adjusting anything as I have no way to test temperature or pressure. Presumably this adjustment wouldn't affect the pressure of the water through the puck, because that is controlled solely by the spring?

Does anyone have any recommendations for me? Is there some suitable thermometer available in the UK which would help me to control the temperature of the espresso produced?
Simon
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rpavlis
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#2: Post by rpavlis »

I suspect that you could attach a pressure gauge to the steam wand like some do with other machines. I have not handled one of these machines; I have only seen pictures. If it have a removable tip steam wand, you can cut threads on a piece of brass and attach a gauge to the other side of the brass. You can also simply attach a suitable hose to a gauge.

If you have the portafilter on the machine without the filter basket while the machine is warming up you will get higher temperature espresso because there is appreciable metal mass in the portafilter. (All metals have molar heat capacity of about 3R, where R is the gas constant.) The coffee itself has a substantial heat capacity too, and the first espresso that comes through is practically cold, so short shots tend to have low temperature. Ambient temperature matters a lot too.

I temperature profile my shots from time to time.

La Pavoni spout thermometer well

I think your machine has a portafilter with two fixed openings, you may be able to attach insert a digital kitchen thermometer probe into one?

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beer&mathematics
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Joined: 11 years ago

#3: Post by beer&mathematics »

Temperature too cool? That's a first :P In fact, I think the Export runs too hot. Tell us a bit more info. When you heat up the machine, do you hear any 'ppst' from the pressure release valve? What does the water look like when you pull the lever down with out a pf (make sure for put a large bowl under there)?

I recently adjusted the pstat blind (meaning without a pressure gauge). For me, I couldn't get adequate steam so I adjusted the pstat up until I heard a light 'psst' from the pressure release valve every other minute or so. Also, when I had the pstat too low (for me, it was about 3/4 turn from where I ended up at) the water didn't come out 'flash boiled' but rather like hot water. For example, like in HX machines in this video. This is also why a 10 second pre-infusion is necessary to cool the water in the group a bit before the full extraction phase.

What's interesting is that I think the Export is too hot for my tastes so I have been experimenting with a cool PF and cool basket and not warming up my cups.

Take all my advise loosely as I am still, like you, trying to dial in the temperature (ie pstat) that suits my tastes.

Pip pip cheerio :P
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wintoid (original poster)
Posts: 86
Joined: 12 years ago

#4: Post by wintoid (original poster) »

Pressure release valve... that's the brass thing under the cup warmer? No, I've never heard any noise from it or seen any steam from it, to my knowledge, but perhaps I haven't been paying attention (my household can be quite noisy with 2 young kids).

As I'm the only espresso drinker in the household, I reach a point later in the day when it's clear I shouldn't drink any more coffee. So, I always empty the boiler at this point by pulling the lever without a pf. It sprays everywhere, including some quite oblique angles, so I tend to put the whole group head inside a small ceramic jug to avoid making a wet kitchen.

Incidentally, once the machine is warmed up, the group is usually too hot to touch, which sort of doesn't tally with the coffee being cold.

I've got to be really careful here, because I have literally just got the machine to the point where I'm happy with the coffee. Don't want to mess that up chasing a warmer cup.
Simon
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wintoid (original poster)
Posts: 86
Joined: 12 years ago

#5: Post by wintoid (original poster) »

Robert, I like your solution. Given that getting a more accurate weighing scale has helped me so much, I wonder if getting a decent thermometer would too. I don't know where to start though, really.
Simon
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rpavlis
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#6: Post by rpavlis »

I have a kitchen thermometer with a cable with a probe on the end that is designed to insert into meat whilst it is being roasted. It has a rather fast response. Some thermometers like this have probes that you can insert into the spouts, I did that for a long time with the La Pavoni before making the thermometer well. I try for a final temperature of around 93 to 95 degrees or so. Many portafilters have detachable spouts. They always seem to be 3/8" bspt. I think the Ponte Vecchio export has spouts moulded into the bottom of the portafilter?

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peacecup
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#7: Post by peacecup »

Brew temperature is a function of boiler temperature, which is controlled by changing the pressure of the boiler (higher pressure = higher temperature). This is controlled by the pressurestat, found under the bottom plate by removing the four rubber feet screws. There is a +/- on there, and you turn the screw in the direction you want. A 1/4 turn towards plus will result in a noticeable change in pressure and temperature. Don't adjust it too much at one time. You can drill a small hole in the bottom plate to access the PStat without taking off the plate.

There is a pressure safety valve, the brass thing on top of the boiler. If you turn up the pressure too much this will start to hiss. It is a good idea to test this when the machine is cool, by pulling up on the thin rod in the center. It is spring-loaded. If you can pull it upwards and feel the spring it should be working. You may need a pliers. DON't do it when hot unless you have gloves and eye protection.

More nuanced control of brew temperature can be done by brewing when the group is at different temps. It sounds like you are already brewing when the group is hot, so I don't see how the espresso can be too cool. Other things that affect espresso temperature are flow rate of the shot and how long of a preinfusion you use.

Boiler water is hotter than the group head, so in general, the longer the water stays in the group (preinfusion time or slower flow) the cooler the espresso.

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