Peppina Redux - Page 21

by **andersno** on Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:49 pm

I recently bought a La Peppina in rather good condition. I used it a couple of times and the espresso was actually quite good, without any restoration. But i figured I'd better change the gaskets anyway and bought a kit from orphan espresso. I managed to change the gaskets with help from orphan espressos great tutorial, and I was ready to produce even better espresso. But... now whatever I do all the shots from the peppina is sour, really sour. I flush before the shot to get right temperature etc...
Do you think something went wrong when I changed the gaskets? What could it be?

Thanks!

/ Anders

by **espressme** on Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:18 pm

I am not sure! Did you also change your way of measuring temperature since the rebuild or leave some citric acid in the passageways? Perhaps a different batch of coffee or is the old batch tired out after waiting for the rebuild?
Sour usually equals cold or old.
Someone will probably chime in with the real answer!
Cheers
-Richard

by **andersno** on Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:32 pm

After a few more shots I'm certain there's something wrong.

It doesn't matter if i pull the shot while the water is boiling and use new beans. There is no citric acid left, the water from the peppina taste like water.

I guess I have to open her up again, but it would be nice to know what to look for. Any ideas?

/ Anders

by **timo888** on Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:41 pm

The only thing that comes to mind as a byproduct of a gasket-replacement capable of causing sourness is that the water-draw is now less for some reason. The lesser water draw would result in a cooler shot. Water from the cylinder could be flowing back into the kettle because the one-way washer isn't working as it should ... or air could be drawn in through a poorly sealed group bell.

Has the volume of water per pull changed noticeably?
Does your machine sound different to you?
Can you see any swirling in the kettle?

Regards
T

P.S. Let's hope it's old beans as Richard suggested.

by **andersno** on Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:34 pm

Hmm..

Perhaps is there an extra "slurping" sound in the begining of the pull of the lever, but I'm not sure.
If I release the lever quickly (without coffe in the pf) there's air bubbles in the kettle.
Does this equal "a poorly sealed group bell"?

One pull of the lever is about 3cl, so that hasn't changed very much...
Fresh beans also tastes like lemon juice....

Thank you for your help!

/ Anders

by **orphanespresso** on Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:09 pm

Also along with Richard here....old or cold.....but since this appeared with the rebuild one can assume that the rebuild does have something to do with it and is not an artifact. As Timo suggested, the small group washer alignment is the usual suspect in most performance issues. You can try checking the group washer by taking off the dispersion screen and group bell (the portafilter holder, replace the screws so all you see is the small washer and the screws which block the water from flowing out, add some cold water and move the handle up and down about 1 or 2 inches and observe the small washer to see how it is behaving. You can actually see if it is opening evenly and closing properly. If the screw which holds the washer is too tight the washer will cup and not seal properly, if it is too loose it will not be sealing at all. The goal is to adjust the screw so the washer is flat and ideally when you lower the handle a bit no air will suck in and when you release, water will squirt out from 3 or 4 areas equidistant around the washer, not all squirt out in one spot on the washer. this adjustment gets you generally a few facefulls of water so make sure the water is cold.

That slurping sound is air being pulled through the group. As the washer system runs on a path of least resistance priciple, any misalignment of the small washer means it is not sealing and air will enter the cylinder on the piston downstroke, resulting in a mixture of air and water in the cylinder, or not enough water as Timo suggests. And if there is air in the cylinder the brew pressure will be too low (like air in the car brake lines) which seems could result in bad extractions and taste issues.

You do not need to take the kettle off the base, just revove the lower group parts and screen and adjust. As a test of the air in the cylinder idea, when making a shot try pulling the lever alll the way down fairly sharply and wiggle it up and down to see if this can work the air out of the cylinder by watching the kettle until all of the bubbles are gone, then release the handle and see if the acid taste is gone.

by **timo888** on Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:26 pm

andersno wrote:Hmm..

Perhaps is there an extra "slurping" sound in the begining of the pull of the lever, but I'm not sure.
If I release the lever quickly (without coffe in the pf) there's air bubbles in the kettle.
Does this equal "a poorly sealed group bell"?

One pull of the lever is about 3cl, so that hasn't changed very much...
Fresh beans also tastes like lemon juice....

Thank you for your help!

/ Anders

There are two washers: (1) one about 3m which sits at the base of the kettle inside the piston cylinder and is designed to keep water from flowing from the cylinder back into the kettle and (2) one a little bigger than 1cm which is on the group and is designed to prevent air and coffee oils from being sucked back into the piston cylinder from the filter basket. The 3cm washer "opens" when you pull the lever down and closes when the lever rises; the 1+ cm washer does the opposite: it "closes" when you pull the lever down and opens when the lever rises.

Regards
T

P.S. Read Doug's remarks about adjusting the screw on the smaller washer to prevent "cupping", i.e. the washer becoming concave. The little washer needs to sit flat against the flat surface of the group.

by **Bluecold** on Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:03 pm

Are the gaskets on the La Piccolina compatible with those on the La Peppina?
I ask this because there is a Piccolina on the way from Italy (i'm stoked!) and although it was described as "FUNZIONANTE!!!!!" i wouldn't be surprised if i needed new seals and washers. The seller does however have 100% feedback and has previously sold other vintage hand levers so i'm not scared.

Searching for it only gave me old remarks about not being able to find seals. Thank god for orphanespresso, without knowing they were around i would never have thought about bidding* on the Piccolina.

*attention everyone, bid in the last 10 seconds. Bidding before that time only serves to drive up the price. Read this yes it's a long read but the summary is good and i don't think anyone with a pronounced dislike of long reads would stay here long enough to find this post.

by **orphanespresso** on Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:06 am

I think MissionHB has a Piccolina and would also have the answer to the seal question re La Peppina. the old style La Peppina with the aluminum drip tray and the small kettle takes the same seals so likely the Piccolina does as well, but Francois would be the best source for this information.

by **missionhb** on Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:21 am

The peppina rebuild set from barb and Doug fit the Piccolina perfectly.
best,
F


Contact Us	Legal disclaimer and copyright: This content and all its parts are copyrighted, all rights reserved. Content including all text and images in part or in whole may not be reproduced in any electronic or printed medium without prior permission. Home-Barista, Home-Barista.com and related logos are trademarks of Home-Barista.com, LLC. Other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. By accessing this site, you agree to the terms of service. Overall speed: , current page: s, avg: s, max: s