So I'm very seriously considering the purchase of a certain well restored vintage 2 group commercial lever machine. To help fund the purchase I would have to sell some of the more choice vintage domestic levers in my collection (I hate that it's a collection, but it is and I have to be honest with myself). I'm wondering if any of the owners of larger vintage commercial levers out there would be willing to advise...I would probably have to sell off a '73 Olympia Cremina (extra heavy build, almost mint), a '74 Olympia Club, an LP Eurobar, and maybe a Caravel or MCaL. Is it worth parting with these guys to pick up a $6500 worth of vintage lever history?

A bit of background: I live in a weird world that straddles home coffee and professional coffee. I have almost an entire small cafe's worth of gear, literally everything other than a commercial 2 group machine, and a lot of it does see periodic commercial use in connection to my coffee job. I also have access to reseller pricing on just about anything. Normally I would advise anyone against buying gear with the justification that it will eventually go into use when he/she launches a shop...equipment is the easy part of doing that...everything else is the hard part. But still, part of me sees a vintage commercial lever as both the final piece of a set and the first step towards somewhere I would really like to go...commercial scale restorations and customization. Are there particular joys to having and using a rave vintage commercial lever that aren't tied up in the weird psychology of collecting? What is really involved in bringing one of these machines into a modern commercial environment? Would I be better off just picking up the LM of my choosing when the necessary time and money are already in place?

And I feel like a total newbie posting a "which machine do I buy" kind of post...and why can't I use the word "n o o b"?

Russel:

About that particular machine you are considering ...

Is there another time when you will be able to snag one of those, working that well, at that price? Is there any doubt you can use it in a commercial environment? Blue Bottle has a window devoted to a three group Kees commercial lever. They are usually using two groups.

Maybe keep the Cremina or the Caravel. You'll be able to quickly temperature surf different coffees with one of those.

When will you have another shot at ... my precious!

And if later you want to sell it, which you probably won't, send a few panels out for polishing and you'll make money on it.

I'm very happy to have a commercial lever on my counter at home.

And if you still have doubts about the appeal of a museum piece on a coffee bar, take another look at Oliver and his Gaggia at Iron and Steam in San Francisco. He had to work his butt off the restore that. You wouldn't have to at all.



Oh, yes, I want to add, are there particular joys to owning a rare commercial lever? Yes, it's a commercial quality machine, not commercial build quality, commercial everything. On this counter, which machine draws your attention?

There's the snapshot of my dream (less the dude). And it's a given I'm +1 with snagging that commercial lever.

Well, I'm just really of two minds. I've spend enough time working behind the bar and have enough access to commercial gear that the commercial appeal isn't a big draw for me. I've come to appreciate the nimbleness of well designed domestic espresso machines. I like that they can be turned on when I wake up and ready to make my coffee with enough time to drink it before the kids have to go to school. I like that they don't need to be left on all the time. They don't tax the aging circuits of our house. They don't need a direct connection to the filtration system. Maintenance can be squeezed in during a nap or after bedtime. A good domestic machine compliments a domestic rhythm, and I have come to value that.

On the flip side, I've found myself collecting, and I don't really like letting myself collect because I would just collect all sorts of things (I'm very good at buying things...which sounds trite but actually isn't). So I have a lot of gear that I will only use maybe once or twice a month. I have enough to sell off to cover the cost of the machine in question; so in a way I would be simultaneously cleaning out and acquiring something with an actual future purpose other than being a functional curiosity. Collecting really is the only reason for having espresso machines in double digits. I really don't know how I feel about wiping out most of my collection to fund a single machine. Liberating? Bittersweet? They are just machines. The grinders are the things that would have to be pry from my cold dead hands.

I'm a huge direct lever person, so I'm wary of having to sell the almost irreplaceable Cremina...and my wife thinks the vintage commercial machine looks like a juke box! I also usually prefer to do the restoration work myself...more to learn that way. I do have to acknowledge that I'm not in the position to take on the time and risk of rebuilding one of these even if I stumbled upon one frozen in a barn...

Oh, such difficult choices.

Gary, Cher, thanks for chiming in...which machine do you actually use to make coffee on a daily basis?

On a daily basis I use both the Prestina and the Cremina. The Prestina's dialed in to certain coffees and pulls a better shot. The Cremina lets me temperature surf different coffees and pull excellent shots. The Prestina's a bit smaller than the wonderful specimen you're considering. I start it on an appliance timer so I only need to bleed off air when I get up and a few minutes later it's ready to go. I fill it with a FloJet. But that's not what you're looking at. The Prestina anticipated today's prosumer levers that are (relatively) small with a commercial group.

russel wrote:But still, part of me sees a vintage commercial lever as both the final piece of a set and the first step towards somewhere I would really like to go...commercial scale restorations and customization. Are there particular joys to having and using a rave vintage commercial lever that aren't tied up in the weird psychology of collecting? What is really involved in bringing one of these machines into a modern commercial environment? Would I be better off just picking up the LM of my choosing when the necessary time and money are already in place?

Our 2 group La Pavoni Bar L2 is arguably not all that vintage - maybe '80s? don't know - but for all I know operationally similar. We use it more or less exclusively (Saturday morning I made a vacuum pot, first in a long time and may be the last.) It is not better than my Zerowatt. (For me, anyway - for the lady of the house, the Zerowatt's ergonomics are a problem.) Quality of results, and general suitability for a domestic kitchen environment, are not reasons to get a commercial lever.

If "modern commercial environment" means heavy use and critical reliability expectations, I'd guess it depends somewhat on parts availability. If there's any question about finding the various group gaskets, forget it - obviously - those have to be replaced pretty regularly. The rest has held up well for us, but there's been some replacement of pressurestat, release valve ... I got the Sirai from a local shop, but if you have to get into some international search to replace a part, that might mean an unacceptable down time. Even with the easy stuff, maybe a commercial environment really means engaging the services of a repairman who can show up off hours with parts that you'd have to wait until morning to get. Or maybe it means having a backup machine. Quality of results in this application ... maybe a plus? Here we're comparing to an electric pump machine, which might be a little less forgiving of non-perfectionist technique and in any case much less distinctive. I would worry a little about wrists and elbows.

You mention household power issues, as if it's going to push the amperage rating on your kitchen circuit - but a 220V machine would be on its own circuit, at least per code in our locale. So probably some electrical work to be done. If you have a line on a 110V high wattage machine, yeah, that's an issue!

Russel, I really understand your ambivalence
On my counter is a Lambro doing the everyday work, in the basement there's a Gaggia ELE-lever that is to squarish for the kitchen, and the 2g-Urania is awaiting rebuild to sit on a future counter, when the kids are out of there demolition age... Then there is this wonderful unrestored Conti Empress still in the box, which will switch places with the Lambro every other season. A Caravel is in the mail and the Pavoni thrones in a basement shelf.
But I never started a collection
Still: the big ole commercial lever is the real deal, it's rather classic furniture than kitchen tool,it's what they dont'make anymore thesedays, it's what we are!

Do the right thing!


Cheers,
Holger

I faced this kind of decision awhile back and won't tell you whether or not I chose to buy what was offered at a very low price. I wrote about the decision-making process here.

The Vipassana Method for Emotionally Charged Decisions

I use a Faema Lambro as my everyday machine. I've had an e-61 clone, an MCaL and a Cremina. The Lambro easily trumps them all. I have NO desire to upgrade. Zero. Zip. Nada. Nil.

Only downside? Can't temp surf or easily change temp. But, the Lambro seems to be very tolerant and it's no big deal.

If your goal is to make excellent espresso with a minimum of effort, then the old commercial lever rocks. For other pursuits and interests, I don't honestly know.

Best wishes,

Jack

joatmon wrote:I have NO desire to upgrade. Zero. Zip. Nada. Nil.

Only downside? Can't temp surf or easily change temp.

+1

And the reason it looks like a jukebox is that Italian machines of that era were inspired by U.S. jukeboxes and automobiles. It's part of the period charm of that piece.