Owner Experience with Conti Prestina

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drgary
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#1: Post by drgary »

On the trail of fine espresso I came across a wreck of a Conti Prestina almost two years ago. I began what is now a very long thread detailing the restoration. I'm starting this thread in part to keep that one focused on the finishing touches of restoration and focus on the working machine itself. Now that I've brought it back to life, my experience as a new owner of a working Prestina is like that of Jim Mitchell (Dr. Jim). This quote was brought to my attention by Jack Piccolo (peacecup). It comes from Jim's excellent thread from 2006 entitled, A Conti-diction.

"I'm somewhat slack-jawed that the 30-year old Conti with no tuning, tweaking, or even particularly elaborate ritual appears to not have any gross flavor vices, but instead promises to simply deliver the true and uncontaminated flavor of whatever coffees I should happen to feed it."

The rest of that brief thread is well worth a read. And like Dr. Jim I quickly found my way to the triple basket. Meanwhile, over the last many months, while my Conti lay in rusted pieces, I've been getting acquainted with many home levers, including pre- and post-Millennium La Pavoni Europiccolas, a very rare Lady Duchessa with a miniature version of a classic commercial group, an Elektra Microcasa a Leva, and a La Cimbali Microcimbali. I've learned to service most of these and have been taught by HB friends to modify and optimize them. But it seems nothing offers the almost effortless shot quality of the Prestina sitting on the bench in my garage without a case or drip tray, just starting to pull shots again.

Newcomers like me have appeared on H-B and a few of you have Prestinas. I expect your experience is similar to mine if you've got yours pulling shots. If not a restoration is well worth it. Is it like Richard Penney wrote awhile back?

"She is a wonderful machine I would put her against any made anywhere, at any time for quality of espresso. The only reason I gave mine up was that I had a Cremina and could better use the counter space."

He was satisfied with a Cremina instead of his Conti. I've also had a chance to compare a Cremina to an Elektra Microcasa a Leva and a pre-Millennium La Pavoni. The Cremina seemed to pull no better shot than those two when they're tuned up and temperature controlled. I return to Richard's first sentence, and I have no shortage of counter space.

My Prestina has brought my attention back to the macchina, one of the four m's of espresso quality. So, if there are any of you out there, what is your experience of your Conti Prestina's performance or any of the newer Conti lever machines with the Prestina group? Have you compared yours to other commercial levers? Is this forgiving quality what happens when you have a commercial lever machine with sufficient mass, boiler capacity and spring power to work like this?
Gary
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What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!

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orphanespresso
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#2: Post by orphanespresso »

Gary....over on the restoration thread I actually did laugh out loud when you began to experience some espresso from your new commercial group for the first time...HA! I seem to recall a conversation with you before you bought it (for the sum of 300 bucks or so) warning you that once you tried a commercial lever that it would ruin you for the smaller home machines....and now even your sweet wife is clearing counter space!!

So yeah I can now say I TOLD YOU SO!! :D

But to the point, you are going to be able to see some design quirks on the Prestina that are not shared on other commercial groups...but a lot of this may have to do with Conti-specific concepts....short(ish) lever plus strong spring using the linkages for force multiplication and piston centering...that odd choke down at the end of the piston effectively reducing the piston bore then expanding the diameter again in the filter basket....I am sure you will come up with a few more concepts unique to the Prestina...but to comment on your question..yes. I do think that by and large all commercial lever groups/machines produce a very similar shot as far as consistency and quality.

They all have some little or large design idea that sets them apart...some of these ideas are in the user preference area and some are obviously patent avoiders, but the espresso turns out to be very similar since the groups are by and large the same. I like Faema groups becauase they can be so readily updosed and have a very simple seal and piston alignment system (also they look like I expect a group to look). Even more beautiful are the Conti Empress groups or the Aurora groups in a more modern era. The Gaggia Italy groups are so machine age that they break your heart but always worry me due to the gearing on the lever and rod...the rod can be replaced but not the lever. The wide format machines are real barista friendly with a great workspace (Bosco, Gaggia both spain and Italy, Faema multi groups) which is wide and roomy. Thermosiphons, direct bolt on dippers, HX setups etc....all produce by and large a very similar shot as far as the quality that you are now experiencing, though on each and every machine one has to learn what the machine likes to do and what it simply will not do (La San Marco is very dose specific, but comes with 6 different basket sizes to very dose).

Once again, congratulations of finishing this part of the restoration and I personally think the Prestina looks the best with no case at all....but it could use a drip tray and once you get the drain hooked up you will be even happier since the permanent drain really completes the automation of the installation.

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drgary (original poster)
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#3: Post by drgary (original poster) »

Thanks, Doug.

The purchase was $200. But you of all people know that's not what it costs after you add parts, tools, chrome and powdercoating and countless hours of painstaking work. Even considering my newbie learning curve it would be a bargain to purchase the Gaggia Orione/Italcrem hybrid on your site for $1650. But how do you price the entertainment value of learning to restore a serious, vintage machine? That's one of the main reasons I took this on.

This machine was imported by the prescient Thomas E. Cara. When I told his son Christopher about my restoration he said he and his dad imagined brass-plating one of these and leaving the case off. A momentary touch of the hot boiler (I'm okay) instructs me otherwise. I won't leave that or live wires exposed. A plexiglas case would be interesting but I've opted for brushed steel and side panels the color of Nuova Point espresso cups that match my countertop. I am glad it's got a very small footprint.

Yesterday I was pulling multiple shots for myself and a couple of visiting coffee lovers. I put all kinds of coffees in this thing and it makes them better in unexpected ways. A very light roast that seemed underdeveloped revealed a chorus of floral notes. A local commercial roast into second crack was mellow and chocolately with no bitterness at all. And underextraction tastes thin but delicious too. I could pull shots with the manometer low or high and they're neither burnt nor sour. I'm surprised that some cafes can produce lousy espresso on one of these but somehow they manage.

The relatively short lever and powerful spring were a challenge for the woman who was visiting. She needed two hands to pull the lever into locked position. But she was able to get it done, and now she knows the level of effort needed.

Now that I've got it working the fun is just beginning. You did "tell me so" in more ways than one, that I would find a commercial lever group a different experience as I would restoring something like this. You said, "welcome to my world." I can see why you restore machine after machine even though the time required doesn't yield much financial return. Frame off restoring is like home roasting where the time and effort don't compensate the money saved in doing it yourself. But that's not why someone takes on one of these.
Gary
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arcus
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#4: Post by arcus »

Gary,

Thanks for taking the time to share all your restoration info and now this thread. Great information! I'm definitely going to add this machine to my wish list as I start to search for my first lever machine.

Paul

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drgary (original poster)
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#5: Post by drgary (original poster) »

You're welcome, Paul. Happy hunting!

A note on user experience: Today I tried Dr. Jim's recommendation of 17 gm in the triple basket. I had been updosing a lot, going up to 26 gm with a looser grind. Using Jim's recommendation I came up with my first undrinkable shot with what looked like a decent pour, but that was because I was seeing what would happen with a local commercial roast into second crack. I returned to my prior dose of 26 gm, ground coarser. This eliminated all of the unpleasant bitterness and made a wonderfully chocolatey cappuccino. I will experiment with downdosing Stumptown Hairbender, a blend familiar to many of us.

Added: Jim found the stock four hole steam tip too aggressive and replaced it with a two hole tip. I'm not having problems with the stock four hole tip.
Gary
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What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!

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drgary (original poster)
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#6: Post by drgary (original poster) »

As I was doing office work from 3:30 to almost 5:00 a.m. this morning I realized I've got to adjust my coffee drinking habits with this commercial lever. It makes big, rich shots. I'm getting best early results updosing into a triple basket and that makes a very large ristretto. :shock:

I'm sure this is a barista skills thing. All that spring power and portafilter capacity to play with. I do have a single basket for my Isomac Amica and will give that a try. I've also found some truly excellent decafs that I may blend in (Counter Culture Decaf Espresso Rustico, home roasted Guatemala Royal Swiss Water Process Decaf, and others have listed many alternatives in the recent decaf thread.)
Gary
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yakster
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#7: Post by yakster »

Ah, the perils of breaking in a new machine. I've been there, Gary, and decaf is a great way to go.

I'm really liking the Ethiopia Coffein Decaf I got green from the Green Coffee Buying Club, looks like it's back in stock or I could slice you off a half-pound or a pound of green if your so inclined (and maybe get a chance to try out this resurrected lever myself sometime).
-Chris

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drgary (original poster)
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#8: Post by drgary (original poster) »

Thanks, Chris. I just ordered 10#. Lots of the decaf gets gifted because so many don't know it can be delicious. And that Prestina says "Feed me"! Come by and take your chances any weekend. I'd enjoy a visit.
Gary
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peacecup
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#9: Post by peacecup »

We need to start talking brew ratios here on the lever forum a bit more. We have lots of different sized baskets, pistons, etc., so it's difficult to know what's going on when someone says BIG ristretto,

The Conti is a 57 mm basket or 58? With the triple you'd be using a 20g dose? How big is the shot - I think a ristretto should be more than 50% brew ratio I think - so the shot would be 40g or less?

I'm interested in this in relationship to being able to compare brew methods and taste results between vastly different machines, like the Caravel, Pavoni, Strega, L1, Conti, etc.

PC
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drgary (original poster)
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#10: Post by drgary (original poster) »

Fair enough. Get ready for the craziest thing you've heard all day. Keep in mind that I was playing with Hairbender, which likes to be updosed, and taming some local Vienna roast, which it did again today, amazingly. The Prestina has a 58 mm basket and I dosed a triple basket to the rim before tamping.

26.2 gm ground in a Pharos, 49.7 gm liquid in a Gibraltar glass (glass is 238.3 gm and with coffee was 288 gm) = .527 brew ratio. Here's how it looked after I took the tiniest taste and the crema was dissipating, but I weighed before that. 14 gm of the ground coffee is decaf so I don't launch myself to the moon. This will go into a big mocha.

Gary
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