Hi,
I have a La Pavoni Europiccola, and my question is this; if I have my grinder settings dialed in correctly should I get crema and 2oz. in one "pull"?
I lift the lever to the 10 count, stay at the top until I see espresso flow in the cup and stay in that position for a 10 count, then come down slowly to another 10 count is this right?
Thanks as always!
Wayneo

I'm a Fellini Move (1-1/2 pulls) fan, but there's ample discussion for and against multiple pulls. Here's a sample:

Stupid Lever Question - One pull or multiple ?
Lever multiple pull techniques (long)
La Pavoni Europiccola - one pull too little, two pulls too much

Well, from my experience with Europiccola the fellini seems to work best - and I have tried all the pulls! I slowly lift the lever up, count to 6 seconds when I reach the top (doesnt matter if you see no drops), slowly descend the lever until you are about a third of the way down, or until you feel some resistance, hold it for a couple of seconds, lift it slowly back to the top, and then gently do a full pull. If you can get a full pull with decent resistance in around 20 seconds you should be tasting magic.

That seems to work the best for me, but I guess the real answer lies in your grinder, how you grind and freshness of your beans.

Ziobeege,
That action you described seems to be the best for me so far too.
What kind of presure tamp do you do? 30lbs or somewhat less?
Thanks for your time,
Wayneo

Wayneo
Up till recently I would be tamping hard - 30 pounds for sure. Results were indeed good. Recently I've made my grind finer and tamped less - say around 15 pounds - and am impressed with what I am getting to the extent that this is now my preferred option. I seem to be getting a more intense flavour this way. I guess it is because there more coffee granules to extract from, and yet still keeping the resistance from the tamped back at the same level.

Not sure what your grinder is but I think it is fair to say that the fellini works best with a quality grinder. A Rocky class grinder is sufficient, although I have noticed the difference since moving to a macap M4.

I've developed a 1 1/2 pull technique with my Caravel manual lever. I take one full preinfusion (fill chamber and pull down until one drop falls to cup). Then the 1 1/2 pulls: lift lever, pull half-way down, lift lever pull all the way down.

Thanks for the info! I will give it a try.
Having someone take the time and offer what works for them is a wonderful resource!
All the best,
Wayneo

It's 100% about personal preference and the coffee.

My suggestion is to simply split the shot into two cups. First pull into one, second into another. Taste them separate and see if you enjoy anything about the 2nd pull shot by itself, or if the first one is complete. Of course overall the second pull shouldn't be as good, but if it's all completely watery and bitter I can't imagine why you'd want to include it. If it's pretty decent then I say include it and try to tune your routine to include the double pull for that coffee.

This will all vary based on the coffee, age, grind and dose. For example, I can get a nice double pull (on my Caravel) on brighter coffees if I loosen up the grind and dose a bit higher. I like this "lungo" (or maybe it's a normale on my machine) for those types of coffees, but it isn't so great for heavy body coffees. So you can see it's really more about options than a hard fast rule, at least for me and my tastes. You might find that you can never get a double pull that satisfies for varying reasons. Personally I could never get a double pull on my Pavoni that didn't disturb the puck and ruin the shot.

The only word of caution I would give is that if you are looking towards a double pull for simply more volume it is often a mistake. Let taste be your guide and it will never be wrong.

Wise words there from Droshi.

But in some ways the question is why do you want a double pull?

In terms of preserving the puck you are better not doing your second pull with the piston near the bottom, so a half-pull or two half-pulls followed bay a full pull could work out better if you want a higher volume, more watery espresso.

The Caravels to which Peacecup and Droshi refer have a little valve in the centre of the piston which opens on the upstroke and makes them disturb the puck less on double pulls, partly because they also tend to have a more watery and cooler puck than the Pavoni. You are more likely to disturb the puck and get a watery second pull with the latter.... Reversing gently and not at the bottom can help you avoid this.

Back to your original question: the grind should be fine enough so that you just get a tiny drop after around 8 to 10 seconds. Many people grind slightly finer so that with a fresh bean they won't get any drops at all and prefer it this way. What works best for you will also depend on the coffee you prefer. The downward pull should generally take longer than a count of 10, though. Most people talk of between 15 and 25 seconds for espresso machines in general, but many "lever heads" like an even longer pull of say 30 or even 40 seconds. You will discover your own preferences with time, but may find that grinding a little bit finer for a 25 second gives you a more full-bodied cup, if that is what is lacking, trying to read between the lines.

If you are able to post pics of freshly-pulled shots and pucks people could offer more specific advice.

HTH

Cheers

Mike

Fellow,
Thanks for all the good info, much to consider and try adjusting one thing at a time.
All the best,
Wayneo