I just picked up an Olympia Cremina 67 and it's missing the portafilter(apparently, according to this forum, not uncommon!).

I'd like to resurrect the machine but I'm figuring I'll have to make one out of brass or SS pipe. shouldn't be too hard if I make it "naked"

Could someone get me the diameter of the inside and outside of the portafilter(without the tabs).
I'll also need the diameter of the cup(measured at the high point where the cup meets the gasket.)
I think I'll need it to the nearest 0.5 mm, even closer would be better.

HappyTamper( member here) may be your best bet- contact him - he has hand cast PF in bronze for La Pavoni already... nothing like a PF made by an artist. HEllO Mitch! we have a person needing help! He lives in Toronto. I am pretty busy right now , but we or someone here, can share some dimensions with you- AS a MATTER of fact I know someone else missing a PF for a Cremina--- Bob! also known as TUS172 may also be game- maybe Mitch will do a better deal for 2 --- or not Good Luck

Yep, You bet I am game for a custom job for my '67 67 Cremina. If dimensions are needed I can supply that also. Just let me know what you need. The ears of the portafilter would be somewhat tricky I am thinking.
Also you may already know that a La Pavoni Europiccola portafilter will work, it is just that that the ears are made to rotate it the opposite way in the group head. Now remember that the old Euros are 49mm but post 2000 mileniums are 51mm.
But as I first said I would be game for a custom job from Happy...
Hey Greg... If Happy needs a proto-type or original form for a mould would you be gracious and be willing to part with one of your portafilters. I only have one but I know by now you have at least two. I'd probably want to just go ahead and 'kick in' for 2 or possibly 3 portafilters depending on the $$$ (Anything to help out 'Granny').
I would be perfectly happy with a bottomless portafilter as I know that would reduce the need for detail and threading.

wobblyeyes wrote:I just picked up an Olympia Cremina 67 and it's missing the portafilter(apparently, according to this forum, not uncommon!).

I'd like to resurrect the machine but I'm figuring I'll have to make one out of brass or SS pipe. shouldn't be too hard if I make it "naked"

Shouldn't, but a bit of time and sourcing materials.!
Have you tried the suppliers for naked portafilters? cheaper! if there are any.
Do a search for happytamper and one of his threads has a tamper he cast. A bit of work with shrink and he could do it. His art works are high buck+.
EDIT 6-7-07

Could someone get me the diameter of the inside and outside of the portafilter(without the tabs).
I'll also need the diameter of the cup(measured at the high point where the cup meets the gasket.)
I think I'll need it to the nearest 0.5 mm, even closer would be better.

Hi Folks,
MLTHO:
The LaPav PF is 2mm wider across the ears. The ears are a few mm shorter.

These dimensions are for the Oly:
56mm OD [2.25"]
51.25mm ID [2.02"]
23.4 mm [.921"] depth to beginning of internal bottom curve
external rim basket rim relief:
2.26mm [.097] deep
54.7mm [2.153] Diameter
Ears:
....edit:same day....added info...
2.55mm [1.004"] EDIT 6-7-07 2..26mm / [.097] depth from top rim to ear. same as the basket external rim relief.
62.6mm [2.464"] ear diameter
20.4mm [.803] ear length
4.29mm [.169"] thickness crowned =- 004"and end radiused very slightly.

I might consider making a few bottomless pfs if there is an interest.
At a group of 6 each one would be over $30 in material and about 4 hours each, the shanks would be threaded 12mmx1.75 for + handles which you would buy from LaPav or Gaggia. @ ~$20 shipped If I were to calculate the cost it would be around $120ea. shipped.
Aluminum bronze has a bit of nickel and bearing bronze has a bit of lead. Both are common in potable water plumbing. They may b tinned inside if that is a worry. The same with similar brasses.

I believe Lino has a better set up for the job in multiples, he has CNC and the buying power. Bottomless PFs are one of his specialties.

sincerely
richard[/quote]

EDIT 6-7-07

Wow, thanks for those measurements, That should get me most of the way there.
I'll have to pass on the offer to make one. My shoestring budget won't allow it.

wobblyeyes wrote:Wow, thanks for those measurements, That should get me most of the way there.
I'll have to pass on the offer to make one. My shoestring budget won't allow it.

Enjoy! You are welcome. Get close to final dim and check against the group. Finish the fine dims with a file to fit well.
The crown on the ears is on the bottom and allows the pf to run up the group ramps to tighten.
Email if you need another dim.
have fun!
richard

I would really like a brass bottomless portafilter/custom handles combo

Regards
Timo

P.S. I think Lino asks that you send him your PF (if it's non-standard) and he turns it into a naked one. He won't have a cache of Oly portafilters on hand.

timo888 wrote:I would really like a brass bottomless portafilter/custom handles combo

Regards
Timo

P.S. I think Lino asks that you send him your PF (if it's non-standard) and he turns it into a naked one. He won't have a cache of Oly portafilters on hand.

Hi Tim,
Such could be something to happen. I shall draw up a monster individualized PF taking the problems I have heard about into account. It would be similar to the ( Heaven Forfend) Saeco crema pressurized in looks and be of a solid brass billet. The reason for the looks is that it would have a band of metal almost 6mm thick around it to accommodate the handle attachment and give extra strength to the basket carrier. And...It may be a way to have a really heavy heat sink or source to pull multiples.
Not this week though, I am fighting to save/make one handle out of four times as much volume of expensive, splitting,shattering, mind freaking Black Ebony.
Keep the thread going!
sincerely
richard / espressme

Didn't take as long as I thought...It is a start!

Measured from mine which takes the baskets from Oly and LaPav.
Think about it!
sincerely
richard / espressme

The thread is M12x1.75 to be compatible with standard handles?

timo888 wrote:The thread is M12x1.75 to be compatible with standard handles?

You are correct, for the Cremina's handles. It may be whatever a customer requires.
Cheers
richard

I have talked with Lino... Lino is willing to make a batch of bottomless portafilters for the Cremina out of stainless steel. Would anyone else be interested in this venture? I would be sending him mine as a prototype to go by.
Lino can be contacted at: lino@vernadesign.com

49mm? So they woulld fit Maximatics and older Liviettas? I smell an opportunity!
paul

Hey Guys,

I figure it's time for me to chime in...

Before I get started making too many PFs of different sizes and types, let me slow things down a little...

I'm going to *try* to make a PF for the Cremina. Do they vary by year like the Pavoni? Or is there only one size?

The hardest part of making a PF (if you aren't casting it) is to cut the helix in the PF ears. That helix isn't shown on the drawing above, but I assume that there is one. If the PF was made from stainless and without that "ramp" you'll get contact only at a very small point when you lock in. That will lead to pretty rapid wear at that spot. And it will be the brass grouphead, not the PF that gets worn.

This probably won't be a fast project, as most of my "extra" projects aren't (Dan can attest!), but feel free to ping me on this thread or by email if you want an update.
My CNC machine isn't operational yet, and this job requires it, so that's another slowdown.

I've got pretty much no idea of cost right now, except that it will likely be on the far side of $100.


Hopefully I'll have more to add later.

ciao

lino

lino wrote:The hardest part of making a PF (if you aren't casting it) is to cut the helix in the PF ears. That helix isn't shown on the drawing above, but I assume that there is one.

The slots in the group are ramped; the ears are as Richard drew them, though I think the leading ear-corner is a smidgen less abrupt, i.e. slightly greater radius, and the bottom is not perfectly flat, but has a slight arc.



Regards
Timo

lino wrote:Hey Guys,

I figure it's time for me to chime in...snip

Before I get started making too many PFs of different sizes and types, let me slow things down a little...

I'm going to *try* to make a PF for the Cremina. Do they vary by year like the Pavoni? Or is there only one size?

The hardest part of making a PF (if you aren't casting it) is to cut the helix in the PF ears. That helix isn't shown on the drawing above, but I assume that there is one.

Hi Lino,
The ears on my Cremina have about a 6" radius not a helix on the bottom. Should you wish it, I shall send a DXF of the drawing to you. Send a PM to me. I just got the Bronze to try one of the above for myself. Bottomless with a brazed handle shank is no problem on my lathe and baby mill., CNC might be needed for a full PF. However, a shaped spade bit would do the inside job. and inside jaws + a template and file would do the outside.

My CNC machine isn't operational yet, and this job requires it, so that's another slowdown.
I've got pretty much no idea of cost right now, except that it will likely be on the far side of $100.

That's about the price point I was coming from doing a few at home.. I took the drawing to a shop and they were in the $200 each for a lot of ten. The shops around here start at $65 per hour simple and expect $150+ for CNC time. I'm sorry that I wasn't aware that you didn't have CNC when I suggested contacting you. Your photos show such awesome construction and finish.

Hopefully I'll have more to add later.
ciao
lino

Thanks for chiming in!
sincerely
richard / espressme[/quote]

On the choice of material...

The Oly Club manual recommends running the PF under cold water between shots to keep the Club's group from overheating. To that end, could the naked PF be made from brass instead of stainless? Less wear and tear on the group slots too.

Regards
Timo

timo888 wrote:On the choice of material...

The Oly Club manual recommends running the PF under cold water between shots to keep the Club's group from overheating. To that end, could the naked PF be made from brass instead of stainless? Less wear and tear on the group slots too.

Regards
Timo

Brass would certainly be easier to machine. It looks like material would cost between 50 and 75% more for brass. Though that depends largely on the alloy of both the brass and the stainless.

I'm not sure I can polish brass and I'm quite sure I can't chrome it, so, from me, you'd be left with bare brass.
Stainless I can polish, so it'd look better.

Bob wanted stainless, so that's where I'll start.



It's great to hear that there is no ramp in the ears. That moves the job back into manual machine territory, though the ear profile will have to be hand finished.

Hmmm.... The little wheels are turning.

Hey Richard, thanks for the DXF offer. I think I'll take you up on it, even though I'm getting a PF to hold in my hand and measure too.
For what it's worth, here's the business side of My Shop:

The "Santec" pictured at the bottom, outside, early during disassembly, was, isn't now, but will besoon, a CNC machine. My Bridgeport looked much worse than that when I first got it home...
Also, all the bottomless PFs I cut are done inside the Tupperware (that everyone asks about) that's sitting on the rotary table. It contains the chips.

ciao

lino

lino wrote: ... PF for the Cremina. Do they vary by year like the Pavoni? Or is there only one size?

There are some changes in baskets which lead me to believe that there may be some variation in the PFs, perhaps in the basket-rim-support-wall and in the contour where the cup base transitions to the inner wall. Only the former variation, if it occurred, would be relevant for a naked portafilter.

My Cremina was made in 1992. (Club made in the mid 1970s-- differences noted, if any)

I.D. 51.2mm (Club: 52mm)
Basket-rim support wall height ?.?mm (Club ?.?mm )
O.D. above the ledge at the rim-support 54.4mm
O.D. below the ledge 56.5mm
Ledge breadth: ~1.05 mm
O.D. at the ears 62.5mm (Club: 62.9mm)
ear-length 20mm
ear max thickness 4.4mm
top of ear flush with ledge

Thread M12; 1.75 pitch




Regards
Timo

Sorry if I confused the issue talking about 49mm. That was what I thought the earlier PFs were (cremina67) and that is what is used in the earlier pump driven Olys also. Thought that a larger market for these might be beneficial, but if not.......

Anyway, my ignorance was showing and I apologize.
paul