If the prices for plating that I received recently are typical, the additional process and transport costs for chrome or nickel plating might add about $10-$15 dollars to the unit price, assuming 10-15 pieces in the plating batch. Since with a naked portafilter espresso does not come into contact with the plating, it would not have to be meticulously food-safe.

Regards
Timo

I will be sending Lino my portafilter before the weekend. It fits both my '67 and '86 Creminas and is in fine shape.
If enough interest is shared, the material can be agreed upon, and a price for plating secured for a batch of portafilters... Say 10 or 15 we could move ahead as a group to secure a price range for the project in brass.
If not I will go ahead with my original plan with Lino for a naked stainless portafilter which he can highly polish and will have no need to plate. If there is interest in that we could also go ahead with it as a group to make it more cost efficient. I personally would like 2 but if I am going solo I may have to stick with one.

timo888 wrote:On the choice of material...
The Oly Club manual recommends running the PF under cold water between shots to keep the Club's group from overheating. To that end, could the naked PF be made from brass instead of stainless? Less wear and tear on the group slots too.
Regards
Timo

Hi Tim,
As I mentioned above, I prefer brass and the original PFs are die cast brass. The reason for mentioning "lino" is that he is very skilled and I believed he had a CNC setup which would have been more cost effective than my doing them. Bill then contacted him about a stainless pf which is, in my humble opinion, overkill.
I will do polished PFs of brass / bronze. The reason is that a naked PF won't contact the flow in any way. All the group is protected by the screen gasket. remember, I pay the same , roughly, for brass / bronze as stainless steel.
I just don't care for the Stainless in big amounts as I don't have a decent ventilation or the room to use a good coolant. I do the stainless cores for the tampers and handles with a gel type coolant which is easier on the eyes and lungs but doesn't do a great amount of getting rid of the heat from heavy cuts.
Does this answer your questions?
sincerely
richard / espressme
PS, somehow I begin to wish I hadn't been helpful..

Hmmm.... The little wheels are turning.

Hey Richard, thanks for the DXF offer. I think I'll take you up on it, even though I'm getting a PF to hold in my hand and measure too.
For what it's worth, here's the business side of My Shop

Email me by the address in my profile for the DXF. I optimized it for manual and it would use 2.50" hollowbar. Rotary table used only for the ear definition. The grip shank to be brazed into the ring. thicker ring for heat sink and long term strength and stability.
It's good that you have a pf to check the drawing with!
You are very fortunate to have such a large clean space. I work in 144 sq. feet with all my rural water conditioning and the heating plant in there too.

The "Santec" pictured at the bottom, outside, early during disassembly, was, isn't now, but will besoon, a CNC machine. My Bridgeport looked much worse than that when I first got it home...

The "Santec" type of machine is a real solid performer. very sturdy and stable. Way, IMHO, stronger and more rigid than the Bridgeport types. I've CNC programmed and machined with all the various type and that is a winner at the price point. The last reasonable priced machine. We had a CNC"Lagun" and some CNC "Miltronics?" from Minneapolis of that style and they never let us down from chatter.
Did some machine tool rebuilding meself and can see that you did a great job. That Clausing sure beats my Craftstsman 12" and my Chicago mini mill.
What CNC controller are you planning to use?

Also, all the bottomless PFs I cut are done inside the Tupperware (that everyone asks about) that's sitting on the rotary table. It contains the chips.

Done that trick myself! especilly with coolant on a Bridgeport!

ciao
lino

Sincerely
richard

Following this thread closely, looks like a great project. I'm interested, no pref btwn brass and ss.

Lino,
I really like your setup. Much better than mine was and the Clausing is in great shape! What is it 24" between centers and 10" swing? I had an old Logan Model 200 built in 1943 but was in mint condition... Belt drive and had to change out gears in order to vary turning/feed and threads... Just sold it last winter to a guy from Mass. He loves it... I am looking to replace it after I move to NH this summer/fall.
Portafilter sent...

You can count me in for at least one.

espressme wrote:The "Santec" type of machine is a real solid performer. very sturdy and stable. Way, IMHO, stronger and more rigid than the Bridgeport types. I've CNC programmed and machined with all the various type and that is a winner at the price point. The last reasonable priced machine. We had a CNC"Lagun" and some CNC "Miltronics?" from Minneapolis of that style and they never let us down from chatter.

Did some machine tool rebuilding meself and can see that you did a great job. That Clausing sure beats my Craftstsman 12" and my Chicago mini mill.
What CNC controller are you planning to use?

Sorry about the semi off-topic but it looks like some are interested...

I'm glad to hear the you like that type of mill. I had a Chinese benchtop that I'd been considering converting, but I ended up selling it as I couldn't stand the poor quality. I found the Santec, non-running, for only $100 more than I got for my benchtop. I have a friend who is the best machinist I've ever had the pleasure of working with and he just bought a second mill of that style (He has Sounthwest Industries, TRAK brand).
I'll be running it with a PC using Mach3 software as the CNC controller. Power supply, I'm building. Drives are a new brand out of Finland - I believe I'm their second customer. And the servos are state-of-the-art Fanucs!
The machine originally had a Centroid PC based system with steppers, circa 1992.
I'm only reusing the ballscrews (and may replace them before long, as they are not high precision).

The lathe is actually a Brit made Colchester (rebranded in the US by Clausing). It is in nice shape, however I'm considering replacing it with a Monarch 10EE at some point. The Colchester is a little lightweight for my needs (or wants, actually). It weighs about 1500# where the 10EE, with slightly smaller capacity, weighs in at about 3500#...

Regarding the mounting of the handle, since the wall of the PF is thicker than stock, what about drilling thru the wall and tapping.
Then two options are available:
1) use a custom handle that screws directly into the wall of the PF.
2) use an "adapter shaft" that threads into the PF on one side and has length and threads to mimic the original PF so that original handles can be used.


Ciao

lino

TUS172 wrote:Lino,
I really like your setup. Much better than mine was and the Clausing is in great shape! What is it 24" between centers and 10" swing? I had an old Logan Model 200 built in 1943 but was in mint condition... Belt drive and had to change out gears in order to vary turning/feed and threads... Just sold it last winter to a guy from Mass. He loves it... I am looking to replace it after I move to NH this summer/fall.
Portafilter sent...

Actually it's a Colchester but since Clausing was the importer they put their name over the top of the original branding. It was made in England in 1967.
It's a little bigger than that too, actually 13" swing by 36" between centers. It's hard to see in the pictures, but I got it with a taper attachment as well.
It's a nice machine. I'm toying with the idea of "upgrading", but the last thing I need is another project...


ciao

lino

My perception was off but still... a nice setup and machines.

The portafilter is on its way to you and should be in your neck of the woods on Monday or Tuesday of next week at the very latest. Regards...

lino wrote:Regarding the mounting of the handle, since the wall of the PF is thicker than stock, what about drilling thru the wall and tapping.
Then two options are available:
1) use a custom handle that screws directly into the wall of the PF.
2) use an "adapter shaft" that threads into the PF on one side and has length and threads to mimic the original PF so that original handles can be used.

Compatibility with original handle female thread would be a good idea.

Regards
Timo

lino wrote:[

Hi lino,
I really like running the 1942 EE with 3 point suspension, I run one at a buddies when my Craftsman won't cut it. That has the old multi drive, and there are only two persons in the world who have any idea how to trouble shoot it and we can't locate them.. I hope yours has the new system.

#2 is my choice.
INMLTHO
The belt could have a flat face counter bored on it to allow a planar match with the threaded grip extension shoulder. The extension needs to have the threads start at least a half inch from the basket holder to miss the group.
Since the belt is so thick and the inside does not touch the brew, it should work well. Also with your skills, for stainless steel a sturdy plug weld from the inside to the shouldered handle bar extension could be a real winner.
I might consider the possibility of going back to the rotary table after installation to clean it up either way.
For a brass one, the shoulder and braze would be the simplest.

Have fun,
richard

Okay... I am in for at least one.
Fullsack is in for at least one.
Any other takers out there?

Are we still at the price point of $120 ea shipped?

lino wrote:Hey Guys,

I've got pretty much no idea of cost right now, except that it will likely be on the far side of $100.

ciao

lino

Above is an excerpt from one of LIno's earlier posts.
It is hard to nail down prices when a number of factors need to taken into account (quantity, design, materials, setup, process, waste...etc). The more the merrier!

It is too soon, I think, to ask "who's in?" if we don't know the details. Whoever ends up making these, Lino or Richard, will want to find out what features are desired, and then come up with a description of the item, and a price.

Whether I am "in" depends on a number of things:

-- choice of material (I prefer brass for its heat-sinking capacity)
-- chrome plating rather than simple polishing for aesthetic reasons (so it doesn't get blotchy)
-- compatibility with original handle thread

and last, but certainly not least

-- the precise dimensions near the rim support wall.

The tolerances near the rim are very small, yet there may be variations over the years in the dimensions of the portafilters. For example, I have spent close to $100 on baskets that are said to fit but don't quite fit. They are very likely to sneeze because the rims sit a fraction of a millimeter higher and so press tighter against the gasket than the originals do. The replacement baskets fit so tight that they also place a lot of stress on the handle when they're being locked in, and the repetitive lateral stresses have cracked two handles. The original baskets fit perfectly (a little more loosely because of the lower height of their rim) and they are sneeze-less.

I have provided dimensions of my portafilter. Could others who may be interested in a naked PF do the same, so we can get a sense of the extent of the variation, if any?

Regards
Timo

timo888 wrote:It is too soon, I think, to ask "who's in?" if we don't know the details. Whoever ends up making these, Lino or Richard, will want to find out what features are desired, and then come up with a description of the item, and a price.
Whether I am "in" depends on a number of things:
-- choice of material (I prefer brass for its heat-sinking capacity)
-- chrome plating rather than simple polishing for aesthetic reasons (so it doesn't get blotchy)
-- compatibility with original handle thread
and last, but certainly not least
-- the precise dimensions near the rim support wall.

I found that the baskets from my Europiccola and another couple I had around the place do fit my '82Cremina portafilter.
I looked at the reason. Some of those baskets would not seat into the Euro PF. The key factors are as illustrated.

As Greg ( mogo) suggested, a slight careful bashing of the basket rim to spread it out around its outer circumference is one key. That increases the rim's inner radius which had before stopped the PF intrance before the complete seating of the basket. There is a slight taper/radius of the inside of the rim on my Cremina portafilter.
The other basket rim consideration is that the rim of the portafilter is too wide at the illustration, which may stop the PF from entering as above. The other baskets wouldn't fit my Euro for that reason.
Another consideration is that the rim curve is too long in its vertical outer dimension and the edge hits the ears of the PF. Not observed on my trials.
A mold for casting a PF would by nature tend to wear and make all feature dimensions a bit larger/thicker.
Whoever does the portafilters would greatly benefit form the loan of the collection of baskets.
my dimensions are on record and Greg had no difficulty with other baskets, but did gently bashh the rim of one to make a better fit.

The tolerances near the rim are very small, yet there may be variations over the years in the dimensions of the portafilters. For example, I have spent close to $100 on baskets that are said to fit but don't quite fit. They are very likely to sneeze because the rims sit a fraction of a millimeter higher and so press tighter against the gasket than the originals do. The replacement baskets fit so tight that they also place a lot of stress on the handle when they're being locked in, and the repetitive lateral stresses have cracked two handles. The original baskets fit perfectly (a little more loosely because of the lower height of their rim) and they are sneeze-less.

I have provided dimensions of my portafilter. Could others who may be interested in a naked PF do the same, so we can get a sense of the extent of the variation, if any?

Regards
Timo

A start.
sincerely
richard

Presently I use a Olympia Single and a double, a La Pavoni double and an Microcasa A leva double ( The LP and MCaL are very similar in top lip size. The MCaL is deeper, deeper................ and about $17. THe Original Oly baskets are the bets fit of all, as Tim has opined many times-

But in defense -I really gently "peen" with the most delicate of small ball peen hammers and play classical music while doing so .......Bash just seems so ............"ballpark" - SO SHADE TREE Which is what it "IS" in reality....

A machinist I never will be, so back to just watching this thread I go- Go get 'em Lino and Richard!

For a naked PF, what Richard has termed the "basket rim relief" determines how high the basket sits. Both the thickness of the rim and the relief are factors.

I just did a little experiment. Taking the mid-70s era PF that came with the Club, and using it with the 1992 Cremina, all of my baskets now fit! Formerly, using the 1992 portafilter, these baskets would lock in at 5:30 on the analog clock (lever handle points to 6 o'clock) and could not be locked any further than 5 o'clock. Now they go all the way to 4 o'clock, as they should.

The differences between the two portafilters: the basket rim support on the 1970s-era PF is both thinner (the older portafilter has a larger I.D.) and less tall; together these differences cause the baskets to sit lower.

The rim height is difficult to measure with the tongue of the calipers. If the calipers are slightly out of plumb, the measurement can be off. But I can see with the naked eye that the baskets are sitting lower on the older portafilter. The gap is noticeably larger with the newer portafilter.

Regards
Timo

timo888 wrote:It is too soon, I think, to ask "who's in?" if we don't know the details. Whoever ends up making these, Lino or Richard, will want to find out what features are desired, and then come up with a description of the item, and a price.

I have provided dimensions of my portafilter. Could others who may be interested in a naked PF do the same, so we can get a sense of the extent of the variation, if any?

Regards
Timo

I don't think anyone is talking about mass marketing here. So what does make a difference in price is the difference between one and say ten portafilters. If I were Lino I woud have some level of comfort in knowing that more than one or two people were interested... "Time is Money"...
We are talking about a custom job done by craftsmen that obviously have a passion for doing things right, I personally am one who is willing to have faith in their decisions as to what is best.
I have sent a portafilter to Lino that fit both a '86 and a '67 Cremina perfectly... I don't think that Olympia (small shop) has been in the habit of changing dimensions or design of something that works well.
Just as La Pavoni had continued for over 4 decades with their 49mm portafilter. I have interchanged La Pavoni portafilters in machines that were made 30 years apart.
From a tolerance point of view I also don't think that the Portafilter to grouphead fit or ear to rim distances, are measured down to ten thousandths of an inch... consider the 'slop' felt between the portafilter and grouphead, if the gasket is not in the grouphead. The only thing that allows a seal is the large portafilter gasket in place. Also some of these older groupheads have been 'torqued on' for years and have worn somewhat. I have noted as much as 15 thousandths difference (gasket to shoulder) in groupheads of La Pavonis with new gaskets in place. This is either due to wear and tear or loose machining tolerances.
As far as the lip of the basket I have also found that some of the A Leva baskets had either too much of a curl or were a bit too wide to easily fit into the grouphead of one of my Creminas. My solution was to turn the lip down a bit in a lathe. Another option would be to carefully grind it down on a grinder with an extra fine wheel in place.