"mixed crema"

Okay—there is the crema on top after the shot settles, and then there is the "mixed crema" which occurs during the shot, mixing in and burbling throughout the black. I find the "mixed crema" a foreteller of liveliness. That's one thing I really look for when evaluating a pull. What's the official term for this mixed crema—mixed crema?

popeye wrote: But if you're willing to continue chasing this issue, and want to put some time in, pictures would be helpful.

Fair enough:


sorry about the marimekko shot glass - it was the only clear one I had.

I've tweaked the grinder - removing the set screw that worked as a stopper allowed me to wind the burrs completely together. I then backed them off, spinning the top burr by hand until they made no contact. Replaced the set screw and the grind above is what I now have. I think it may be too fine, as I'm not tamping that hard, but what do I know? I wouldn't be here if I knew what I was doing. LOL!

With that said, the grinder was cheap, matched my wife's mixer and if it those grinds I posted are inadequate, I can always use that grinder for my moka. I've contemplated buying the kyocera hand grinder, but was waiting to weigh all my options first. I really do appreciate everyone's help. Wait until I start trying to steam milk!!!

Looks like old beans. Do you know how many days ago they were roasted?

peacecup wrote:Looks like old beans. Do you know how many days ago they were roasted?

They never said and I couldn't tell, but I went and picked up some new beans last night that were roasted on the 18th. They clearly have oil on them, where the first ones didn't. How does that grind look to you?

Oily beans don't (necessarily) mean beans are fresh, in fact it's often the opposite...or they were just roasted real dark.

Thanks for the pictures! Unfortunately, it's difficult to tell grind quality in a picture, but it does help a little. Is it my imagination, or are there discernable differences between "large" and "small" grinds in your picture? Is your grind uniform, or are there pieces which are clearly larger?

The finished shot doesn't look undrinkable, but I would expect it to be flat and lifeless from old coffee. Diagnosing by eyeball is not the proper way to do things, but the crema is thin and pale, compared to what could be achieved with your machine.

If you've got some freshly roasted coffee, you're probably a little happier by now. However, i still suspect the grinder is holding you back. If the shop you bought the coffee from is able to grind you some, I suggest you take that home and use it within an hour or two. That will enable you to see the differences between your grinder and a commercial level grinder.

I'm not suggesting you need to go to a commercial level if you're trying to save money, but entry level espresso capable consumer grinders start at about $250 (I recommended the ascaso line to my brother, and I used a rancilio rocky for a while). My guess is that if you do get to pull a shot with well ground coffee, you'll immediately start saving. I don't expect you to make a serious financial commitment on the recommendation of one individual, so does anyone else have experience with the grinder shown and care to comment?

If you're unable to get some freshly roasted, freshly ground coffee from a local shop to compare grinders, and you're not sure the grinder is the issue, feel free to continue to ask questions and if you can get any better pics of the grind, post them here. I'm more than happy to help.

Try evaluating your grinds by feel rather than look. Does it feel like powdererd sugar, flour, sugar, salt, a mixture of these? In myopinion it should feel somewhere between flour and sugar and evenly so....no big rocks in it but even and consistent. Take a pinch between thumb and forefinger and rub it....does it feel a bit sticky? It should kindof stick to the fingers, give a coating so to speak, perhaps fill in your fingerprints so it feels greasy (not oily greasy, but dry lubricated). You should be able to shine the surface of the grinds...when you compress them they should stay that way and look like they have a crust of sorts. Is this all vaguely specific enough? I generally test the grind by feel as much as anything.

popeye wrote:If the shop you bought the coffee from is able to grind you some, I suggest you take that home and use it within an hour or two. That will enable you to see the differences between your grinder and a commercial level grinder.

This sounds like it is my most logical next step.

popeye wrote:My guess is that if you do get to pull a shot with well ground coffee, you'll immediately start saving. I don't expect you to make a serious financial commitment on the recommendation of one individual, so does anyone else have experience with the grinder shown and care to comment?

I pretty much know what grinder I'd like, but the thought of getting a hand grinder keeps crossing my mind. It would really make me one with the machine. At least that's how I feel.

popeye wrote:If you're unable to get some freshly roasted, freshly ground coffee from a local shop to compare grinders, and you're not sure the grinder is the issue, feel free to continue to ask questions and if you can get any better pics of the grind, post them here. I'm more than happy to help.

Thanks so much - it is greatly appreciated! I'm usually a quick learner, but watching videos on youtube isn't really cutting it. All I'm seeing is fantastic crema. What I'm not seeing is every other variable that makes using a lever an art form.

popeye wrote:If the shop you bought the coffee from is able to grind you some, I suggest you take that home and use it within an hour or two. That will enable you to see the differences between your grinder and a commercial level grinder.

This sounds like it is my most logical next step.

This sounds good, except that the grind needs to be custom tailored to your specific machine for a quality result.

orphanespresso wrote:Try evaluating your grinds by feel rather than look. Does it feel like powdererd sugar, flour, sugar, salt, a mixture of these? In myopinion it should feel somewhere between flour and sugar and evenly so....no big rocks in it but even and consistent. Take a pinch between thumb and forefinger and rub it....does it feel a bit sticky? It should kindof stick to the fingers, give a coating so to speak, perhaps fill in your fingerprints so it feels greasy (not oily greasy, but dry lubricated). You should be able to shine the surface of the grinds...when you compress them they should stay that way and look like they have a crust of sorts. Is this all vaguely specific enough? I generally test the grind by feel as much as anything.

Sounds like what I have to a tee (not so much the dry lubricated feeling, but everything else), which leads us to peacecup's observation that the beans are old. I've found a local guy that roasts on Wednesdays and will deliver on Thursdays. I'm going to give him a try, and in the mean time decide if I'm going to buy that Kyocera hand grinder you sell.