Just got my La Pavoni and pulling shots now. I notice that when I pull the lever completely up - I get coffee flowing out within a few seconds - even before pushing the lever down.

I have set my grinder to as fine as possible - not sure if it is fine enough - I am using a Cuisinart burr grinder. I tried pre ground espresso with the same effect. Could the grind not be fine enough?

Or ...Just wondering if there is too much pressure. I have a Stradivari (non pro) - If I pull a shot without the filter and filter holder in place - the water comes out quite rapidly. I thought that pulling the lever up was supposed to introduce the water gently to the coffee?

However, a video from La Pavoni - seemed to indicate this was normal. But many user videos leave the handle up for 10 seconds.

Is this a pressure issue or grind issue?

It's a grind issue.
You need a better espresso grinder.

You might be able to compensate a little bit by introducing several forceful settling taps before you dress and tamp, and then use an aggressive nutation to really pack the grinds in there. You should be able to cram a little bit more than 18g in the 51mm basket. I like to see some coffee peaking though the basket's holes (if you have a naked pf) before I start my down stroke.

russel wrote:It's a grind issue.
You need a better espresso grinder.

Yes. Many people don't know at first that the grinder has more to do with good espresso than the espresso machine. Quality grinders don't just make smaller particles, the size of particles is also more consistent so you can control the flow rate when pushing hot water through the coffee. This gives you a more uniform chemical extraction so you get better taste and mouthfeel. Your La Pavoni sounds like it's working as it should. Here's a good place to start: Newbie Introduction to Espresso - Grinders [video].

Grinders that are capable of grinding espresso often are rather expensive. As you can find looking at HB posts there are many views on them. To me the most sensible grinder is OE's Pharos, but they do not appear on their web site very often these days. I have to confess that I dislike devices that are needlessly electric. For much more money you can get another manual one, the Hg-one.

A good Turkish grinder works well, but it takes a long time to grind enough for just one shot in my experience. There are other hand grinders too from Japan and Germany.

Some people like to start out with the electric Rancilio Rocky. Scorn is frequently heaped upon them. The problem seems to be that there are lemons amongst them. (If one get lucky and get a decent one they are fine.) There are heaps of others.

If budget is an issue I had good success grinding espresso only with a LeLit PL53 grinder and liked it for the two years I owned it. They're now on sale at Home-Barista vendor 1st-Line Equipment for $219.

http://www.1st-line.com/store/pc/Lelit- ... 3p1979.htm

Otherwise people like to get Baratza grinders with the Vario model being very popular but I think people also like the Preciso. Maybe a Baratza owner can chime in.

I currently own a Preciso, and used to own a Vario. Although both are stepped grinders, the steps are tiny, making them highly adjustable. The Vario has the edge if you want an espresso-only grinder, while the Preciso makes a decent espresso but outshines the Vario as a brew grinder.

Neither of these are as cheap as the Lelit, but you can get them for a significant discount if you buy the refurbished ones off of Baratza's website.

If you want the best value for the lowest price, it would be the Pharos, which is a significant step up in quality from any of the Baratza grinders, at a lower price. Manual grinding and manual levers make a great combination!

The guys have steered you right as to the real problem.
To adress the last half of your post in case you had any lingering questions..
The water flows out of the lower part of the boiler as fast as the (steam) pressure in the top part pushes it out the draw tube.
1 bar of pressure is about 14.5psia so since your draw tube is much smaller than a square inch, that water is really being forced up and out.
This is why you see the water (with no portafilter in place) just shoot and spit out.
With the portafilter in place, with coffee grinds in and tamped or not, that water is hitting the top of the dispersion screen with the same force.
Once you start to pull the lever down, the piston inside the chamber cuts off the boiler water supply and you force the water thru the screen and coffee grounds slowly and steadily.

Leaving the handle up for the 10 seconds or so is accomplishing something called preinfusion. Some searching on this site will educate you about it's use.
With properly ground coffee, the water that is entering the portafilter basket is 'soaking' into the grounds, and actually causing them to swell a bit. Too coarse a grind and the water will just flow thru unchecked. Too fine a grind and the water will almost NEVER get thru no mater how much pressure you put on the lever. This is called 'choking' the machine.
If this happens, you need to release the pressure off the lever handle, turn the machine off and slowly, very slowly, loosen off the portafilter while using a cloth to prevent very hot water and grounds from splattering out and burning you. Choose a coarser setting on your grinder and try again. That process (of finding the right grinder setting) is called 'dialing in a grinder' and you do it as often as your beans change or age.

You might also want to search out the term 'Fellini move' or Fellini pull'.

Another variation on technique has you lock your portafilter in tight after raising the lever handle almost to the point where water would start to flow out of the group. The theory behind this is that when you lift the handle up with the portafilter locked in, the piston is actually drawing air up and thru the tamped grounds. Pull up too fast and you might dislodge the grinds leading to extraction issues called channeling or worm holes and spritzing.
By only locking in after the handle and piston have moved most of the way ensures that only minimal air is being drawn up thru the grounds, thus not disturbing your carefully tamped grounds.

I apologize if you already knew these things! If this is news, welcome down the rabbit hole!

Thank you all for the excellent advice -

Continuing on the theme of the previous post:

If you raise the handle without the portafilter in place until a bit of hot water is released (a fraction of a millilitre is enough) it will fill the space below the piston with water vapour. If you only bring the handle down just enough to stop the flow, and then quickly install the portafilter, and raise the handle back all the way immediately you will avoid the infamous "spongy" pull.

Dear MikeJohns,

This is a guide for grinding espresso for a La Pavoni. This is not a guide for drip coffee. It is meant as a starting point for doing your own searching. Since products change and go in and out of production, this post will advise you what you might look for rather than give you a 'buy list' for you to choose from. If I mention an out of production model, it is because there is a secondary market on line for quite a bit of used equipment and many coffee hobbyists prefer to buy well cared for (or fixer-upper) used machines. I have omitted many inexpensive coffee grinders that either cannot grind fine enough for espresso or have spotty reputations.

Some machines that can grind good espresso have a wide range and can be used for pourover, french press and the like. If you want this, look for it, because machines described as 'espresso grinders' will not have the latitude to grind more coarsely with satisfactory results. They are for espresso only.
To get you started, here are the popular under $300 machines at this time (prices many vary a lot; the more you search, the cheaper you may find). I am not personally familiar with most of them:

• Ascaso i ($300) stepless
• Barzata virtuoso ($225) Reviews vary widely. It gets worse ratings in older review so it seems to be better than it was.
• Barzata preciso ($300) microstepped
• Barzata vario ($450 new, look for used) microstepped
• Cunill Tranquilo ($200-275)
• Gaggia MDF ($249) stepped. I own this machine and can recommend it as a good starter with the latitude to grind for pourover, press and for espresso. I had to replace a fuse in it after two years which required taking it apart to reach the fuse, then recalibrating the burrs after putting them back. Not difficult, just idiotic. The fuse burnout was likely a transient gift from Indiana Power and Light, not the fault of the grinder.
• Isomac Gran Macinino ($280) stepped
• La Pavoni PGB or PGC ($150-300) Noisy.
• Le'Lit PL53 ($290) stepless doserless
• Le'Lit PL 043 ($250) doserless
• Macap M2 (£180 in Britain, more in N.A.)
• Rancilio rocky ($350-380) doser stepped
• Iberital MC2 ($175 - 190) stepless worm gear fine adjustment makes going from espresso to coarse grind a PIA (100 turns from stop to stop) but is great for tweaking espresso grinds. Plastic chute is reported to be very static-y.
• Iberital MC5 (used may be within price rance)
• Iberital Challenge ($230) Same worm gear as above.
• Starbucks Barista ($120) Older models may require some tweaking to get grind fine enough. Do not know about newer models.
• Starbucks Dualit (avail. only in EU) is said to grind fine enough for espresso.
• Nemox Lux ($200) stepped. It is loud but it has its fans.
• Pasquini Lux ($300) stepless

HANDGRINDERS: (It is a lot more work to hand grind fine espresso than coarser drip coffee - you may get tired of this. I know I did.)

• Turkish mill ($20-50)
• Hario Skerton ($40)
• Hario Slim ($40)
• Pharos (used only if you can find it - limited production or out of production)

Good Luck,
Buckley