New RoK espresso, new to lever espresso machines

#1: Post by **medicmoore** » July 6th, 2015, 2:15 am

Hello everyone I am new to the site, and i have been trolling around here for years. I have just bought a new
ROK espresso machine and thing that its' a pretty cool little gadget. Since i have receive my ROK i have pulled some very strong shots,
my water temp is at about 160 or so when it pulls, and also i am using a Hario Skerton as my grinder. I feel like I may be tamping a little to hard, but I'm not sure how to tell if my tamp is hard or not. Anyway the issue is little to no crema. I know my beans are old even if they are in the coffee vac container i realize that over a week is really pressing it...But is there anything else that could possibly be wrong? Also how hard do i need to push for great crema i feel like I'm going to break the machine if i push on the levers any harder...

#2: Post by **aecletec** » July 6th, 2015, 2:59 am

Well that water temperature is far too low, really. When I did temperature measurements on my pre-heated presso I managed to get 90 degrees celsius as I recall. The other issue that you have not mentioned is your dose. The hario skerton is not a fantastic grinder and that may be the problem. 1 week old beans should be fine but if you have a vacuum on them it will mean that there is less crema compared to, say, frozen beans.

If you want crema then updose... if you want good tasting espresso then find the right dose

July 6th, 2015, 3:05 am

Ok so up the temp, I have not yet invested in a scale to accurately get the correct dosing..Also is there any other manual grinders out there that will do the job? Oh and the beans are weeks old...about 3

#4: Post by **aecletec** » July 6th, 2015, 3:33 am

Are you sticking with a manual grinder for budget issues? If so it may be worth your time to instead modify the grinder with say teflon tape or different lock nuts instead of the inbuilt adjustment mechanism, such that you have better grind adjustment and a more stabilized burr. There are many links on this site about modifications such as these.
A scale is almost essential to problem solving espresso and 3 weeks is getting a bit long in tooth if you haven't frozen them, I'm afraid...

July 6th, 2015, 3:40 am

Ok i will look up the mods...Yes sticking with the hario because i am investing in a encore, or possibly the ROK grinder when it hits the market. I plan on doing my own roasting here in the future, but I'm also brewing beer...so money goes there at the moment..

#6: Post by **aecletec** » July 6th, 2015, 3:57 am

To answer your other questions, if you are of average upper body strength you shouldn't need to press hard at all to get decent crema.
Tamping is important to have the grounds compressed but after that extra firmness isn't particularly important - as a lurker you've probably seen the threads on tamp testing?

Check out some of my other posts/threads if you need any tips. I use boiling water for lightly roasted beans at about 100-150ml with no preheat at ambient temperatures of 20-25C, with a gentle ramp up. For darker beans I let the water sit in the chamber after lifting the arms for 5-10s.

#7: Post by **cmin** » July 6th, 2015, 9:09 am

medicmoore wrote:Ok i will look up the mods...Yes sticking with the hario because i am investing in a encore, or possibly the ROK grinder when it hits the market. I plan on doing my own roasting here in the future, but I'm also brewing beer...so money goes there at the moment..

Your not going to want the Encore, it's a brew grinder, not for espresso, the Preciso is the entry espresso grinder. Your Hario Skerton with stepless mod would be better, especially since your budget is tight.

But as said above, your water temp is far too low, and since the beans are 3 weeks old and in a vacuum container, their more then likely too stale for espresso with your setup right now. Where were the beans from? And you need to know your dose amount, pick up a digital scale that weighs to .1g

July 6th, 2015, 12:29 pm

Ok why won't the encore work? It is listed as a entry level espresso grinder. Also I just noticed i have the mini mill slim for my grinder? Any mods for that guy?

July 6th, 2015, 1:18 pm

Much as I like Baratza it's a marketing gimmick (you have $50 grinders that say espresso or fine, it's bs), espresso part is aimed towards entry level machines that come with pressurized baskets. Which don't make espresso and are there for those that don't have an espresso capable grinder, or just use stale preground. It has wide steps, you need step-less adjustment for espresso, which the Preciso has micro adjustment making it act step-less and a better burr set for espresso. Not a matter of grinding fine, plenty of cheap grinders can choke machines b/c of poor grind quality and fines control, espresso grinders grind not only fine but with the correct grind quality and consistency for espresso. A lot of people starting out get that confused, that espresso = anything that grinds fine. Example, I had an Capresso Infinity, it could choke an commercial machine, but was useless for espresso pulling/dialing.

You'd be better off with a modded Skerton if budget is tight as entry (electric) espresso grinders hoover around $300.

Edit - yeah you'll have to search, the nylock mod works for the Slim but you have to search for the part #s, people have listed the sizes for the Skerton and Slim before.

#10: Post by **yakster** » July 6th, 2015, 1:24 pm

Try grinding a bit coarser to see if you get any crema. Sometimes with levers you need to coarsen up the grind to get good crema.