The distributor sold this machine to me as new. It took 3 sessions of a Cafiza solution in the boiler and a blind filter backflush to to get clear water to come out of the group. This isn't a rant, just a background. It's not a new machine.

I'm still getting tiny pieces of chrome coming out of the group after running out 8 full boilers of fully heated water. After a few of the sessions, I turned the machine upside down and emptied the remaining water in to a white bowl. No particles. They seem to be originating from the group itself. There are also some chrome particles outside of the boiler, on the inside of the interior walls. I'm hesitant to remove the dispersion screen after reading this Dr. Jim post:

peacecup wrote:Any idea on how to remove the dispersion screen for cleaning? it looks to me like its pressed on. Also, do you have a schematic - I plan to send a request to Vanelis and the Company if I can't find one elsewhere.

Dr Jim wrote:In a word, DON'T - unlike E61 machines, the lever machines do not suck great gulps of coffee gorp back up through the group head and the screen won't foul unless you grossly overpack the portafilter - just a weekly with a stiff brush should keep it like new for years. OTOH, that dainty little 45mm gasket between the portafilter and grouphead does need constant attention to make sure that coffee bits do not get ground into it. I like to keep a bar towel handy, and use it to give the group gasket a 360 degree swipe after every shot as well as brushing off the dispersion screen.

I'm out of moves. Any thoughts? Thanks.

Doug,

It sounds as if when the manufacturer chromed the grouphead they did not sufficiently plug the interior wall of the piston shaft to prevent it from getting contaminated. I can't think of another reason.

Can you send it back with a formal complaint that it is not new and that it seems to be a second? I recently did that with a company and they immediately sent a new unit without questions.

TUS172 wrote:Doug,

It sounds as if when the manufacturer chromed the grouphead they did not sufficiently plug the interior wall of the piston shaft to prevent it from getting contaminated. I can't think of another reason.

Can you send it back with a formal complaint that it is not new and that it seems to be a second? I recently did that with a company and they immediately sent a new unit without questions.

Thanks Bob,
I afraid the company I'm dealing with doesn't have the integrity of the company you dealt with. I spoke with their customer service representative on Friday. I told her that the machine was definitely used and that the portafilter and grouphead were filthy. She informed me, that was from "testing." A dent on the side of the machine was covered over by their company logo sticker. I don't have high hopes for a good result.

If you paid by major credit card, you can file a complaint. The card company should hold your money, and begin an investigation.

Good luck.

Joel

I've removed my dispersion screen a few times, and have not had trouble putting it back on. I used a paint can opener, because it had a >90 degree hook with which I could pull straight down. Lean the machine on its back and have a look with a flashlight - its not a very daunting task. Just go slow and carefully so as not to distort the shape of the screen much. If you ever needed to replace the brew gasket you'd need to remove the screen anyway.

BTW, although these machines don't suck up grinds as Jim noted, the inside of the group does warrant a gentle wipe down occasionally.

RE: the bits of chome - sure they're not coming from the PF? If they are from the group removing the screen and giving it a good cleaning/flushing should solve it. I don't think the inside of the group is chromed, and I doubt there's really much in there. The fact that the boiler water came out clean is good news. The machine may have been tested, or demoed, but probably isn't very used - a very close inspection of the group would show minute nicks where the portafilter occasionally bumps the group during a lot of normal use.

Vanelis is in CA (vanelis.com), and Gene is very knowledgeable on these machines. And you could call the Good Coffee Co. in Seattle - in the phone book, but no website.

I hope this works out for you,

PC

Fullsack wrote:The distributor sold this machine to me as new. It took 3 sessions of a Cafiza solution in the boiler and a blind filter backflush to to get clear water to come out of the group. This isn't a rant, just a background. It's not a new machine.

I'm still getting tiny pieces of chrome coming out of the group after running out 8 full boilers of fully heated water. After a few of the sessions, I turned the machine upside down and emptied the remaining water in to a white bowl. No particles. They seem to be originating from the group itself. There are also some chrome particles outside of the boiler, on the inside of the interior walls. I'm hesitant to remove the dispersion screen after reading this Dr. Jim post:


I'm out of moves. Any thoughts? Thanks.

You say the machine is not a new machine. Are you sure the particles are chrome? Could they be nickel plate? If the boiler had been nickel-plated on the inside, old nickel plating could be vulnerable to attack by an alkali solution. Cafiza is alkaline, IIRC, and is not really intended for use inside boilers. Isn't it meant to be flushed through the group head and out the solenoid valve?

Regards
Timo

Didn't know. I'd always followed the La Pavoni/Cafiza instructions when boiler cleaning a new machine. The amount of crud that came out made it seem like a good idea.

Looks more like chrome than nickel, but I'm not sure. There was some of it around the outside of the boiler as well. It may be a foreign substance that got into the boiler and then trapped by the dispersion screen. I'll pull the screen this evening.

peacecup wrote:RE: the bits of chome - sure they're not coming from the PF? PC

The particles come through the group when the pf is not inserted.

The inside of the boiler is raw brass, FWIW.

I remove my screen weekly to clean it in Caffiza or JoeGlo, and it definitiley benefits from cleaning. I use a flat screwdriver to pry it off. It snaps off like a bottle cap, and snaps back on.

I clean my boiler with citric acid solution. Ponte Vecchio recommends vinegar, but others here have noted that vinegar and brass promote the formation of verdigris.

I bet that for some reason there are fines trapped on top of your screen, which is keeping the from flushing out thoroughly.

Good luck.

The chrome particles are caused by the lugs of the pf rubbing against the lug groove while being locked in. Must have been a defective chrome job on the inside of the lower part of the group. Time to send it back.

BTW: peacecup, what a slick idea with the paint can opener. I could have saved a bundle on group gaskets by using the opener instead of an ice pick.

I think the chrome is on the inside bottom of the group, but not inside the piston. The chrome where the PF locks into the group has worn over time, i.e. the bottom of the PF lugs now show some brass - I suspect this is the case with all PF's? Does the chrome on the inside of the group look somehow defective, or is it just from where the PF locks in?

PC

Yes, not inside the piston, but in the back underside of the lug groove of the group. That is where I saw the chrome chips. It seems to be the only place. I don't know much about the chroming process, but it looks like a layer of chrome bubbled and the pf lugs crushed the bubbles. There is no brass showing on either the pf lugs or the group lug groove.

On my other machines, there is a thinner, duller coat of chrome in the pf group lug groove.