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New Olympia Cremina mini-shootout

Postby michaelbenis on Sun May 17, 2009 4:59 pm

I got a chance to try out the new Olympia Cremina this weekend thanks to a very kind visit by Reiss Gunson, the man behind Londinium Espresso. Actually it was his own 2002 Cremina updated to the latest spec, with flat top plate that can be used as a cup warmer, new more robust pressure gauge and new more accurate pressure stat. It had the newer "old-style" solid brass, two-seal piston from the off. I believe all these mods are retrofittable. You can see some of this happening to his own machine on the Londiuium blog that I linked to from the Cremina updates thread.

Reiss credits the new pressurestat with being able to keep the machine constantly in the 0.7-0.8 bar range, enabling it to be left on all day without the group head overheating. The stat needed a little tweaking after a bumpy ride to Brighton courtesy of British Rail, so you can see it below on the opened Cremina with my Elektra MCaL in the background.

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I can certainly bear out that the temperature stability of the new Creminas is head and shoulders above what has been reported on HB and elsewhere about the earlier Cremina 67 model. We left the Cremina on for around 3 hours, just switching it off for a refill and the group head did not overheat. Reiss finds that it in fact needs a warming shot if it's been left for too long, though he concedes that if pulling 8 shots non-stop you might want to either wait for it to cool or resort to the good old fashioned wet rag/cold flushed portafilter etc. routines that the Pavoni routinely requires within minutes and after around 3 shots.

During Reiss's Saturday visit we must have pulled a total of 30 shots in 2.5 hours and there was no need to resort to any of these workarounds. I have no idea why it handles this so well, but suspect some of it has to do with the flange on the front of the water cylinder (visible in the picture), to which the case front panel and group head are mounted. This creates an air gap between the cylinder and case and between the cylinder and group head mounting, except for a very small junction which is not load-bearing but just carries the water to the group head mounting plate and has a small contact area. In short there's much less heat conduction from the cylinder to the group head mounting than either on the Cremina 67 or the Pavoni or indeed Elektra - and of course you have the front panel acting as heat sink compared to the latter two. You can see some of this in photo above, as well as the very long flat connecting channel between the group head mounting head main group head body, which must do a much better job of dissipating heat than either the stubby round Pavoni or slightly longer flat Elektra junction, which is however shorter than the newer Creminas.

Anyway, whatever the niceties of the physics, the Cremina is MUCH more temperature stable than either my beloved Elektra or the Pavoni.

In fact, I imagined I would be spending a fair amount of time comparing the Pavoni and Cremina, considering they have so much in common. When it came down to it, there was really no point. The Cremina is so much better built and turns out so much better a shot so much more consistently, that there really wasn't any contest.

This isn't to say things were plain sailing. Reiss was also interested in comparing the machines, though I reckon he was a lot more selfless than I me and got to do a fair bit less comparing than he would have liked. However one idea was to remove as many variables as possible. So we were using his preference in bottled water (Volvic for the dissolved solid content) and his Olympia grinder, which is a beautifully made little gem, as you'd expect, and sits much better in the kitchen than any of my behemoths.

On the minus side for me - at least on Saturday - the Olympia grinder features a box for the grounds out which you scoop them using the Olympia doser. I was UTTERLY useless at this and merrily made an quite total fool of myself with poor distribution and goodness knows what else. Here's a pic of the grinder with the other machines in the line-up:

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It also emerged that Reiss and I have quite different preferences. I am a peasant and so tend to like "interesting" coffees with weird fruity things exploding over earthy backgrounds. I compensate for this by preferring to drink these often African SOs as single espressos pulled on a single basket. Reiss is an altogether more sophisticated gentleman, on the other hand, who likes a sweeter, more subtle beverage, pulling a double on a double basket. This lead to more confusion when pulling shots on my part, which Reiss tolerated with admirable good humour as you can see below.

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In terms of grind and tamp, though, we were agreed, though the Cremina seems to favour a slightly less fine grind than the Pavoni or even Elektra and is happier with updosing.

Reiss has the technique of the Olympia doser spoon down to a fine art, whip up the grinds to declump, dose and smooth the top in a few smooth movements. Conversely, I'm so used to my dosered Super Jolly that all I could manage for the first few attempts was to generate a devastatingly impressive succession of sink shots. Talk about a pig in a tuxedo....

On to what I'm supposed to be writing about: the Cremina. This produced much nicer shots than I or my credit card had dared hope for. Smoother, richer, more crema laden by far than the Pavoni and also sweeter and slightly clearer, though not like the Elektra. I was hooked. And the pleasure of pulling a shot on the Cremina is also lovely. It has....er ... a lovely action. Very satisfying.

The Elektra retained its crown as the clarity queen, but we didn't spend too long playing with it, though Reiss admired the build quality, looks and convenience of the spring. Unfortunately I choose a completely mad Harrar I'm drinking at the moment to give him an idea of the Elektra, but the Harrar was so very much not at all what he likes that it distracted both us of from the machines and on to the beans.

This as it happens was no bad thing.

What beans and very subtly roasted. It's bean an education having someone round with quite different tastes, not least of all because I have some very nice beans to experiment with that I might not have done otherwise and they're proving a real eye-opener. Reiss first roast of a Cuban that he has worked very hard to find was a really bullseye. The result is smooth but with strong bass undertones and nice floral surprises. Calm enough for regular drinking without being so demure that I'll lose interest.

Then there was a very nice Costa Rican that I didn't appreciate sufficiently at first, and a very pleasant of this same Costa Rican with a Skyberry that brings some interesting sweetness and gentle eve-so-slightly fruity ethereally. In short, I reckon Londinium Espresso is well-worth inspection by on-line shoppers in the UK and indeed elsewhere since they happily export worldwide. I'll definitely be buying some more, including wanting to try some of their smooth, sweet Mexican

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The upshot of all this coffee was that I vanished into another dimension by the early evening. I've never taken the word "caffeinated" that seriously. But I have a new and very real respect for it now. It's a good way of losing weight fast, though....

Back to the machines. The Caravel acquitted itself well on its ristrettos, versatility and charm. We also had fun taking it to pieces and putting it back together again. I was somewhat less charming about the mucky pucks when downdosing in particular. It's such a sweet, beautifully-designed, elegant little machine that taking out the boggy PF always makes me smile. It's like discovering that Tinkerbell has flatulence.

But the Cremina dominated the proceedings. I can now see what all the fuss is about. I'm not going to go into that in detail because there's no need: Charles/Karl Schneider did such a great job for the Cremina/Elektra combination at the end of the lever machine smackdown, and Jack and George on the Caravel. I don't think the Pavoni is in the same league. I feel awful writing that: it was my first lever machine. It was a romance. The beginning of a journey. But the build quality and shot quality are just not up to the others, even the later tinnier Caravels in some ways. And the Pavoni's fussier, not just because of the temperature profile but more because of the less smooth lever action and - I'm convinced - that stupid shower screen with its doughnut of solid steel. And the maintenance is a pain. And considering the recommended retail price compared to a Cremina and the quality of the latter... well, I'm not even sure the Pavoni offers such value for money. I thought it would give the Cremina a good run and maybe hold its own. But no, the shots are much better on the Cremina, it's less temperamental and more consistent. The shots have more finesse, more going on in them, more detail in the mouthfeel, more texture and more crema. I think you get the point: I liked it.

But I still love the Elektra. And can totally agree with what Charles and others say about how well the two complement each other. That one can leave the Cremina on all the time with the new pressurestat and pull a shot whenever the fancy strikes makes it even more attractive as my workday companion alongside Signorina Elektra.

Cheers

Mike
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Postby GVDub on Sun May 17, 2009 9:31 pm

Nice post and interesting comparisons. Glad to hear that the Caravel acquitted itself well and she is a charming lady.

I've been thinking about what machine I could get that might do well at small gatherings of friends who might not want to sit around and wait for process of hand grinding, dosing, waiting for the thermostat to recycle, and finally pulling the shot that goes hand in hand with the wonderful shots I get from the Caravel. The two primary contenders for me thus far are the Cremina and the Ponte Vecchio Lusso. I had been leaning towards the Lusso (and these purchases are a ways off yet, in the very beginnings of the planning stage) because of things I'd heard about temperature stability on multiple shots with the Cremina. Now you've gone and made it more difficult again.
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Postby orphanespresso on Mon May 18, 2009 3:14 am

Sounds like somebody fell in love...hard. Same happened here but al HalPerry's this weekend using his Versalab grinder and Termozona. Same kindof thing without the Tinkerbelle flats.
Tried to use all the angles on the photos but just could not see the mounting of the group as being different. And before everyone gets ready to send off for one of those new pstats from Switzerland, in my eye it is a Mater with a 1/4 inch mount. Save some money to buy that one domestically, and kindof surprising that they mounted it upside down as they are said to get waterlogged in that position. We actually ordered a new Cremina pstat from Olympia and they did send us a Mater, and we were pretty burned to have spent that much money and shipping on it, but now I understand why we got that one instead of the old tank. The pstat they show in the photos is a beautiful work with the heavy brass sides and all, but the one in the photo is a Mater.
Were you able to sort out the low pstat setting from the isolated group as far as not overheating? How was the steam at .8 bar?
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Postby michaelbenis on Mon May 18, 2009 5:56 am

Well, a few more bits of information from Reiss, in his own words..... It looks like I overemphasised the pressurestat in terms of group temp rather than shot stability. I think this may also clarify things for you George and take you off in the direction of a PVL 2-group through OE if you have big dinner parties and frequently need to pull lots of doubles in a row. I've never tried the PVL (the importer here never seems to have them in stock amongst other things), but it seems to tend more to a ristretto than the Cremina. One of things that impressed me with the Cremina is how well it handles double pulls, incidentally. It seems to do this every bit as well as the Caravel.

Anyway here are the words of wisdom from the man himself:

just to clarify, the newer pressure stat isnt what allows the machine to remain on all day... it was always quite capable of this

what the new pressure stat does is narrow the temp band in which you operate to a little over 0.1bar, whereas it was previously much wider, perhaps almost 0.3 bar. this is most welcome in terms of improving the quality of the shot & eliminating the need to fiddle around with bleeding off pressure to activate the element if too cold, or simply bleeding off pressure if too hot

from memory the water exits the point at which the group mounts to the face of the machine at 99C, so the 'all day long' temp stability is down to the design of the group i suspect. i.e. the heat is conducted away from the boiler to group at just the right rate to compensate for the group being cooled by the ambient air temp, such that when the lever is raised and the water flows through the group again the temp of the water when it makes contact with the coffee is 'about right'. As i mentioned the first shot out after it has been unattended for a period of time tends to be on the cool side if anything

the new pressure gauge is a must too as it no longer has a stop pin at zero. what happens with the Cremina is that when you switch it off the needle wants to drop below the zero point when it cools & is prevented from doing so by the stop pin. A few cycles of this and the needle on the gauge is eventually twisted on the spindle, as you can imagine & hey presto, next time you switch the machine on it is over-reading by 0.1 bar or so. the new gauge simply has a black dot painted on the dial card.

there is also a new, improved drip tray that all the new machines ship with(mine was the prototype design i am told)

btw, if it is shot after shot degree perfect temp stability that is required, the maximatic is the machine for the job (i.e. dinner parties)

the cremina is for people like you & i who want to have the machine on all day & half the night, but perhaps only a pair of double espressos or so at any one time. it is a machine for the purist as you can subtly alter the pressure for different roasts, as with any lever machine


I think that should answer your question about the overheating mainly being due to the tank and group head mounting change, Doug. I can't answer about the steam. Neither of us are very interested in either lattes or cappuccinos and it simply didn't occur to us to give steaming a try.

Meanwhile.... the Elektra is treating me so well this morning, with some of that lovely gentle Londinium Costa Rican. What a nice way to surface into the day!

I'm obviously much less faithful a man than I thought myself..... :shock:

Cheers

Mike
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Postby rawman on Mon May 18, 2009 11:41 am

I don't know about the prices of the other parts, but I talked to Olympia in August of last year when I got my partial rebuild and the price for the cup warmer („silvermirror" as they called it) is 235.00 CHF. Little too expensive for me.
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Postby mogogear on Mon May 18, 2009 12:06 pm

What a nicely written piece... Thanks for the efforts of both participants!
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Postby quoad on Sat May 23, 2009 12:34 pm

*sigh*

This does sound absolutely wonderful...

And I wouldn't be here, if I hadn't googled 'londinium cremina'...

And I wouldn't've googled 'londinium cremina' if I wasn't really rather interested...

Outstanding review, and it really does look like a wonderful piece of kit...

But it is three times the cost of my MCAL... If it wasn't for that, I'd be after one in an instant *sigh*

Maybe one day, when I've got a spare £2k lying around... *sigh*
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Postby michaelbenis on Sat May 23, 2009 1:30 pm

Well, I wouldn't sigh that much. The Cremina's a great machine, but so is the MCaL. I have been known to wax lyrical about it, as Doug has had occasion to point out :-) If I could have only one lever machine the Elektra would be it.....

And - for any Pavoni owners - since I wrote this the Pavoni has been turning out some really lovely shots with the new Elektra Nino grinder. It takes a lot of fiddling (the Pavoni not the grinder), but there's no doubt it can hack it well when it can put it's mind to it.....
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Postby r-gordon-7 on Sun May 24, 2009 11:21 pm

Glad to hear that the Pav rebounded and came 'round to redeem itself just in time for the final verdict. To really excel, the Pav (as well as its hatted sibling, "The Tin Man") seem to need to have the music of the spheres in proper alignment, along the right touch of the usual coffee-related parameters... But when those spheres are in proper alignment, music plays and magic happens...
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Postby michaelbenis on Mon May 25, 2009 12:21 pm

Yes, there's no doubt that when one has the fiddles down pat and one's biorhythms aligned with the phases of the moon, the Pavoni turns out a lovely shot :lol:

Actually I generally find it quite consistent, but there's no doubt the Cremina is a step up. I was really joking about the Pavoni behaving so well now that it knows a Cremina is on order. That's just typical! :roll:

In fact my biggest frustration with the latest Pavoni's is the single basket which has really been designed for pods... What were they thinking? I mean who wants to use pods with a lever machine or a lever machine with pods?

Cheers

Mike
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