New Lever is in the House...well, kinda...Portaspresso - Page 2
- vberch (original poster)
- Posts: 596
- Joined: 14 years ago
Sure thing! Please see my answers below. I highlighted your questions in bold.
yoursong wrote:Could you explain your pulling routine for the above kind of shot? ( i got the same hc gauge model)
I would be interested in:
Up to which point do you fill the water? I fill it up to the top, just below the seal.
How fast do you turn the whole thing over after you screwed in the portafilter? How fast du you start winding (approx. 360 degrees winds per second or video?) / do you vary speed or continue with the same speed all the time / until a certain pressure is reached?
While building up pressure for pre-infusion, I turn at approximately 1 revolution per second. I build up pressure (around 15 revolutions) until I reach 1 bar (or until you feel resistance if you are not using a pressure adapter) and pause for 15 seconds to pre-infuse.
At this point, I start turning the lever to build up pressure while maintaining approximately the same speed as before. It is more important to watch the flow then to watch the gauge. The gauge is useful for experimentation and confirming what you taste in the cup and understanding what you are doing. Pressure builds up very fast. If I am watching the gauge, I go up to 8 or 9 bar, maintain it there (while watching the flow) for a few seconds and start reducing the pressure simulating a decreasing pressure profile in commercial lever. I go down to 2 or 3 bar.
How long does the standard shot from start of wind to end take like in the picture? Since I like tight ristrettos, I extract longer, around 40 seconds for a double ristretto (100% ratio: 17 grams in, around 17 grams out).
Around which pressure does flow commence? Around 5 or 6 bar.
Max pressure + declining instantly? Again, very important to watch the flow. Extractions will vary with the same grind and the same weight, but different coffee. So, I would just watch the flow and adjust the max pressure accordingly.
I know an aweful lot of questions Every single one makes a difference. That's why the machine is so wonderful. You can pull any kind of espresso you like out of almost any type of bean. It is insane. You just need to remember your favourite routine.
Thanks a lot and have a lot of fun It is a wonderful machine! That's the beauty of lever machines (and I consider this a lever machine), they give you a lot of flexibility. It is like driving a sports car with a manual transmission .
- vberch (original poster)
- Posts: 596
- Joined: 14 years ago
Since my plan was to use it in the office, I thought it wouldn't be a good idea to sit in a cube and pump it with a bycicle pump. I thought that would look silly.
Pumping a cylinder every single day before going to work (or in the evening) didn't seem like a good idea either. I did play with the idea of buying multiple cylinders (5, one for each work day) and filling them up over the weekend, so they last a full week. I thought about using a compressor or a scuba tank with a regulator... Well, you can see how this gets complicated. I think Rossa HC (hand espresso version) is very elegant in its simplicity. It really resonates with my love to levers.
Pumping a cylinder every single day before going to work (or in the evening) didn't seem like a good idea either. I did play with the idea of buying multiple cylinders (5, one for each work day) and filling them up over the weekend, so they last a full week. I thought about using a compressor or a scuba tank with a regulator... Well, you can see how this gets complicated. I think Rossa HC (hand espresso version) is very elegant in its simplicity. It really resonates with my love to levers.
beer&mathematics wrote:Is there any reason why you chose the Hand Espresso version over the Air espresso version
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- Supporter ♡
- Posts: 2483
- Joined: 13 years ago
Nice acquisition Vlad! Good idea on getting the servicing tools too. But I doubt you will need them anytime in the coming 5 years.
I have some questions too (since I ain't got the cash to get another HC version).
How is the clean up? The one from Rossa Air is basically a piece of dry puck so it's very easy in clean up. Just wipe with paper towel or cloth if there's no access to water/sink. I am wondering if HC is the same?
How many ml are you getting from the Rossa? I read on another forum that 30ml is the sweet spot(more than one person mentioned that). Any more and the shot/flavor will suffer. Where as I normally extract 40ml or more with 16g dose with my Rossa Air, and it tastes as good as 30ml. I am wondering if it was the slow pressure build up or it was just user preference for concentrated ristrettos..
Happy cranking!
I have some questions too (since I ain't got the cash to get another HC version).
How is the clean up? The one from Rossa Air is basically a piece of dry puck so it's very easy in clean up. Just wipe with paper towel or cloth if there's no access to water/sink. I am wondering if HC is the same?
How many ml are you getting from the Rossa? I read on another forum that 30ml is the sweet spot(more than one person mentioned that). Any more and the shot/flavor will suffer. Where as I normally extract 40ml or more with 16g dose with my Rossa Air, and it tastes as good as 30ml. I am wondering if it was the slow pressure build up or it was just user preference for concentrated ristrettos..
Happy cranking!
- vberch (original poster)
- Posts: 596
- Joined: 14 years ago
Hi Sam!
I agree about not needing the tools to service Rossa in the foreseeable future, but you never know. I didn't want to be caught by surprise when that happens. I know what to do and have spare parts for my Cremina and Lambro if they need to be rebuilt.
Clean up is fast and easy. I pull shots in the break room near a sink and all it takes is a fast rinse and wipe with a paper towel. The pucks are dry if you wait and let all the water out, but since I am pressed on time, I just unscrew the portafilter seconds after pulling a shot and rinse everything off.
I go for tight ristrettos with all my machines, so this is what I do with Rossa as well. I do 100% ratio, 17 grams in and around 17 grams out. Rossa has volume for much more water, enough for a lungo, I just prefer ristrettos.
I agree about not needing the tools to service Rossa in the foreseeable future, but you never know. I didn't want to be caught by surprise when that happens. I know what to do and have spare parts for my Cremina and Lambro if they need to be rebuilt.
Clean up is fast and easy. I pull shots in the break room near a sink and all it takes is a fast rinse and wipe with a paper towel. The pucks are dry if you wait and let all the water out, but since I am pressed on time, I just unscrew the portafilter seconds after pulling a shot and rinse everything off.
I go for tight ristrettos with all my machines, so this is what I do with Rossa as well. I do 100% ratio, 17 grams in and around 17 grams out. Rossa has volume for much more water, enough for a lungo, I just prefer ristrettos.
- beer&mathematics
- Posts: 1366
- Joined: 11 years ago
I rewatched Ross' YouTube videos and I agree with the elegance of the hand crank version. I was impressed with the air version for its profiling abilities but it seems the hand crank version allows for this as well. Is that correct? And yes, levers club represent!vberch wrote:Since my plan was to use it in the office, I thought it wouldn't be a good idea to sit in a cube and pump it with a bycicle pump. I thought that would look silly.
Pumping a cylinder every single day before going to work (or in the evening) didn't seem like a good idea either. I did play with the idea of buying multiple cylinders (5, one for each work day) and filling them up over the weekend, so they last a full week. I thought about using a compressor or a scuba tank with a regulator... Well, you can see how this gets complicated. I think Rossa HC (hand espresso version) is very elegant in its simplicity. It really resonates with my love to levers.
LMWDP #431
- vberch (original poster)
- Posts: 596
- Joined: 14 years ago
Jorge, Rossa HC (hand espresso version) is definitely capable of profiling. You can profile using the pressure gauge or just go by feel and watch the flow. Using the gauge is more repeatable since you can repeat the same profile over and over.
The way to look at it is using a pressure gauge adapter gets you an essence of a commercial spring assisted lever machine where the pressure is predetermined. You can manipulate it, but the default pressure profile is determined by a spring. Say, going from 8 bar to 2 bar.You can help the spring or you can retard the spring to pressure profile, but default profile is there.
Usiing Rossa without a pressure gauge adapter is an essence of a manual lever machine (Olympia Cremina, La Pavoni, etc). You are going by feel. You watch the stream, you feel the resistance and adjust accordingly.
I love both!
The way to look at it is using a pressure gauge adapter gets you an essence of a commercial spring assisted lever machine where the pressure is predetermined. You can manipulate it, but the default pressure profile is determined by a spring. Say, going from 8 bar to 2 bar.You can help the spring or you can retard the spring to pressure profile, but default profile is there.
Usiing Rossa without a pressure gauge adapter is an essence of a manual lever machine (Olympia Cremina, La Pavoni, etc). You are going by feel. You watch the stream, you feel the resistance and adjust accordingly.
I love both!
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- Posts: 9
- Joined: 11 years ago
Shot volume is an issue. 30ml sweetspot hits it pretty well. You can pull more but corser grinds would be preferable that way.
The problem of the portaspressos is that you have a kinda like unlimited flow rate right from the beginning. So a lot of variables like infusion, pressure profiling etc are a bit different than on flow restricted profiling machines. You need to be careful to not over do the whole thing or you will end up with a "muddy" or overextracted cup. But that also happens on pump assisted machines. Also you need to find a good mix for the initial ramp up with the HC to not muddy the cup. Too slow is not good either.
I actually like to not overcomplicate it with the HC-G. Go steady till 3bar then faster, or steady all the way without much pause. Sometimes do a quick 10-15 initial winds to jump start pressure. This all helps to elimitate muddiness especially with robustas.
Usually its really hard though to not pull a very good cup even when you just "go for it". Heat up very simple... boiling water for about 15seconds, same water again for like 5 seconds, fill it to gasket with same water (no need to reheat depending on altitude)... wait about 10secs (i put a typ k in it to check) for around 93C... screw on... pull.
The problem of the portaspressos is that you have a kinda like unlimited flow rate right from the beginning. So a lot of variables like infusion, pressure profiling etc are a bit different than on flow restricted profiling machines. You need to be careful to not over do the whole thing or you will end up with a "muddy" or overextracted cup. But that also happens on pump assisted machines. Also you need to find a good mix for the initial ramp up with the HC to not muddy the cup. Too slow is not good either.
I actually like to not overcomplicate it with the HC-G. Go steady till 3bar then faster, or steady all the way without much pause. Sometimes do a quick 10-15 initial winds to jump start pressure. This all helps to elimitate muddiness especially with robustas.
Usually its really hard though to not pull a very good cup even when you just "go for it". Heat up very simple... boiling water for about 15seconds, same water again for like 5 seconds, fill it to gasket with same water (no need to reheat depending on altitude)... wait about 10secs (i put a typ k in it to check) for around 93C... screw on... pull.
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- Posts: 9
- Joined: 11 years ago
PS vberch: Nice lambro... still got mine sitting in the basement for completetion
- vberch (original poster)
- Posts: 596
- Joined: 14 years ago
I like your choice of espresso equipment! Great minds think alike .
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- Posts: 69
- Joined: 12 years ago
Hi vberch,
I was wondering how things are going with the Portaspresso after a few weeks? Also, when you're cranking out the espresso is it wobbly at all?
Thanks,
Jess
I was wondering how things are going with the Portaspresso after a few weeks? Also, when you're cranking out the espresso is it wobbly at all?
Thanks,
Jess