Hello,

New user of home-barista and also a new owner of a La Pavoni EPC-8. I've never owned an espresso machine before and mainly made coffee with an aeropress or french press. I've already read a number of guides on how to use La Pavoni machines (including some guides from here) and watched some video guides as well. I have a few questions maybe you guys would be able to answer:

Portafilter:
Are there any after market portafilters you can buy for the EPC-8 that are bottomless without the spout?

Lever force:
Is it possible to damage the machine by putting too much force on the lever?

Gridner:
I'm currently using a Baratza Virtuoso grinder. Is this grinder sufficient for the EPC-8? I paid ~$250 USD for it and it is advertised to be able to grind for espresso. I've seen recommendations that you should spend $300 on the grinder for the EPC-8. With a near full basket, the grinds that the virtuoso produces puts significant resistance on the lever such that I am afraid to break the machine when pulling it down. I'm thinking that if I get a better grinder, I could grind finer and get good resistance while using less coffee. Would it be worth it to upgrade my grinder for this?

Any discussion about La Pavoni lever machines is welcome!

Chris

Justaway wrote: Portafilter:
Are there any after market portafilters you can buy for the EPC-8 that are bottomless without the spout?

Cafelat has pre-millenium and millenium available. There is a thread or two already available on this site for the low down. They are beautiful. According to most, the virtuoso is probably the minimum acceptable grinder but if it works for you now you can always upgrade down the road. Not sure about the potential for breaking the lever. You must be pretty strong?

Congratulations on joining the La Pavoni club!

Yes, you can break things by pushing too hard. Try not to exceed about 30 lbs. If you're not sure how much you're exerting put the machine on a scale and push down. Be sure to steady it so it doesn't tip.

I have the Cafelat portafilter and it's excellent. You can get it without the bottom part.

The better the grinder the better the espresso. There's lots to read in our Buying Advice forum about the right grinder at the right price.

Temperature control helps make those pulls consistent so you can dial in a coffee. You've probably read about that here already. If not let us know and I'll post links if someone else doesn't get you there first.

Justaway wrote:I'm currently using a Baratza Virtuoso grinder. Is this grinder sufficient for the EPC-8?

I think many on this forum would argue that it is not. But I think it should do OK while you're getting used to the machine - I used one along with my millennium Pavoni for almost a year. Out of the box mine was shimmed so that I sometimes needed its finest setting, so I changed some washers (per advice from Baratza) so that the burrs were closer. There will be times when you think one setting might be a little too coarse, and the next click down a little too fine, but with the Pavoni you can moderate your pull force a little to get your extraction rate faster or slower.

Justaway wrote:Lever force:
Is it possible to damage the machine by putting too much force on the lever?

Yes. Gorilla pulls are hard on the pins, lever fork, and on the group slot. You also risk breaking where the lever shaft attaches to the fork. I think you might even bend the group/boiler - you sometimes see a machine where the grouphead is bowed down a little. A lot of pressure is counterproductive anyway. To get an idea about what a too-hard pull might be, put a bathroom scale under the machine and pull a tight ristretto. 30 lbs is plenty, 40 lbs is getting into the too-hard range.

+1 on that Cafelat PF. I wish they were around when I was buying bottomless for my Pavoni. I have one for my Giotto, and is wonderful that I can pop the spouts onto it for times when I need to pull split singles.

P.S.
Here's an image from an old post showing damage to a group slot. Probably gorilla pulls and/or lack of lubrication.


Edit addition : Didn't see that Gary had already answered until after I submitted this. I'm slow (and a bit verbose) in my posts. Glad to see we're in agreement.

I think the lever slot photo above is for a Cremina. Still, Christopher Cara told me you can break the La Pavoni with overly aggressive leverage.

Is this a new machine?

There are some important things to realise:

1. Coffee is corrosive. Always clean all coffee residues off surfaces right away.

2. You will need to "zero in" on ideal conditions to get espresso the way you want it. When you vary things never change more than one parameter at a time!

3. Be sure that the water you use has extremely low chloride to avoid corrosion problems. Those who are fond are very dark roasts may find that distilled water is best. (It, contrary to what some think, is NOT corrosive!) However, bicarbonate ion is a good thing to have in brew water because it reduces acidity of the final product, and because water with traces of bicarbonate allows somewhat more protective oxide layers to form on brass and copper surfaces. The coffee beans contain more Ca, Mg, and K than the hardest water. I have for a long time used 1.0 mM potassium bicarbonate with nothing else in the water. Some may like more or less bicarbonate than that, that can be adjusted individually. Water that produces massive scale can quickly produce expensive damage. Wine makers use potassium bicarbonate for pH control. 1mL of 10% KHCO₃ per litre of distilled or deionised water will give 1.0 mM. This is roughly the same bicarbonate concentration as typical hard water, but it will not form scale. Tap water tends to vary from day to day, especially in small towns and create strange flavour changes.

4. You really need to weigh the coffee each time. You can buy very inexpensive digital devices. You need one that reads to the nearest tenth of a gram. (Some very faulty ones are currently for sale in the US that insist on switching to integral ounces, who knows what kind of ounce, after each use and after 30 seconds.)

5. Avoid gorilla pulls. However, if espresso start to flow after you life the handle and before you pull it, the coffee is too coarse.

rittem1 wrote:Cafelat has pre-millenium and millenium available.

drgary wrote:I have the Cafelat portafilter and it's excellent. You can get it without the bottom part.

Thanks for the suggestion! I ended up ordering this: http://www.cafelatstore.com/products/la ... ortafilter.

rpavlis wrote:Is this a new machine?

Yup, brand new machine. I already descaled it as per the instructions. There was already scaling on the inner boiler and heating element from what I assume was safety tests done by La Pavoni.

rpavlis wrote:Those who are fond are very dark roasts may find that distilled water is best.

I've bought distilled water before for coffee but didn't really notice that much of a taste difference so I stopped doing it. I think I will start buying distilled water again for the La Pavoni just so I don't have to deal with descaling the inner boiler in the future. I generally prefer dark roasts because of the low acidity but I like lighter roasts too to try out different flavors. I didn't know that coffee can damage the brass, but I keep my machine pretty clean on the outside anyways. The only area that gets dirty is the bottom of the group head, coffee residue gets on it. I try to clean it as often as I can though.

Also, a thing I noticed was that the last drops that come out of the portafilter don't taste very good so I usually move my cup away while the portafilter is still dripping and just let it drip into the catch. Is this an OK thing to do for the machine? I usually don't let the lever settle all the way down before removing the portafilter. There isn't much pressure left when I remove the portafilter anyways so it doesn't splash anything anywhere, it just sort of releases a small amount of excess pressure.

You should weigh the shots and time them. Read about espresso brew ratios and aim for different targets. Also read up on bleeding air out, that is a critical step.

Weighing is a good way to train yourself for consistency. I usually don't weigh anymore. La Pavoni drip trays easily rust, so be sure the machine's dry at the end of a brew session. For darker roasts try pulling very cool. With such roasts I have a thermometer attached to the outside of my group and starting temperatures are often 178F or less.

So my cafelat portafilter just came in. But with the basket, it doesn't fit into the group head properly and wont turn 60 degrees like the original portafilter. It can only turn about 5 degrees, hardly any.



The circled part is to big compared to the original portafilter and is big even compared to the online photo.

Here's a comparison of the two:



I'm think that the only way to fix this without shipping it back would be to machine it down a bit. Any ideas?