I had some time this afternoon to pull some shots and on the 3rd shot I think I nailed it, it wasn't perfect but very drinkable. I'm using a well developed medium roast (starts to show a tiny oil after 14 days) "milk base" blend that I'm very familiar with. It's 50% Brazil sitio, 25% Guatemala huehuetanango,and 25% Ethiopian natural sidamo guji. It's a throw back blend that's very sweet, smooth, chocolate, nuts, and a not too bright acidity from the ehtiopian (brings a slight plum flavor to the finish). It holds up really well in milk and the nuts and chocolates shine in a 6-8oz latte.

On the Aurelia I do
18g in 18g VST
24-27 seconds
32-34 grams out

So I tried to replicate that recipe on the lever. I got close.
18g in HQ ridge less double
10 sec preinfusion (barely saw espresso forming on the outside)
30 seconds from when espresso hit the cup
32 grams out.

The obligatory pic of the shot.


First thing I noticed was less crema compared to the Aurelia( I will note that I've used a lot of machines and the Aurelia 9/10 will give coffee more viscous crema). This isn't a bad thing just an observation. The shot had a little thinner mouthfeel as well but not by much. The crema was also a lot darker with more reds in color. It wasn't as "airy" or "fluffy" as my Aurelia shots either. I think the less crema, thinner shot, really let the sweetness come through more. My first sip tasted like someone sprinkled a touch of raw sugar in my cup. It had a bitter sweetness between the strong nuts and chocolates. The fruit wasn't there like I'm used to, but I think it's because the shot ran longer than I wanted. I could tell it was a touch over extracted, there was some spice, like sweet cinnamon, and smokiness I've never tasted before. The spice lingered on my tongue long after the shot was gone.

Overall I was very happy with the result and would be stoked if I was served that shot. Now it's time to explore, it obviously wasn't the best representation of the coffee.

Next I'm going to switch to a light roasted Ethiopia Yirgacheffe Halo Bariti. It's kind of a finicky coffee. If done right it taste like straight blueberries and cream with milk chocolate lingering. It's one of the best shots I've ever had. But it's easy to do wrong. There's a fine line between sour and bitter with this coffee. I got this coffee specifically to hone in my temp management routine, and consistency. I had my roaster put back 5#s of green when I knew I was getting this machine, it was roasted yesterday... So I'll wait till at least Sunday to throw it in the hopper.

A couple of question regarding the way the shots pulled.
1) the shot stopped running at about 34 grams, I pulled it away at 32. I thought these commercial levers gave closer to 40-45 gram shots and you pulled the shotaway at your desired weight. I do have SOEs that need 40, and sometimes 45g yields. What's the answer here? How do I affect how much yield I will get out of one pull? I have t read much info except the Fellini move, which shouldn't be needed on a commercial lever right?

2) do levers in general give a smoother, lighter mouthfeel? I quite enjoyed it. My Aurelia shots run 100% crema on this coffee, between6-7 days post roast it has a foamy quality that I don't like and then settles down with more age.

3)my right group, the new lever style, leaks around where the piston is screwed in. It was leaking when I got it, but the gasket had gone bad. I replaced it today and still leaks. Is there a trick to using these gaskets? It's obviously not making a perfect seal. So I haven't used that group yet.

As a side note I'm going to rant for a few and give big props to the community here. So far I'm loving the machine and love that I finally own a lever. I have dreamed of owning a vintage 2 group lever for the past 5 years. I have a lot to learn and HB has taught me just about everything I know about coffee, so thank you guys, seriously THANK YOU; and I hope you don't mind answering some of my newbie questions regarding levers. As I own a coffee shop with 2 employees, my wife and I, there isnt a wealth of coffee knowledge or people to taste test with, bounce ideas off of. My only other coffee experience was being a manager at Starbucks for 2 years. When I bought the shop I was trained the "second wave" way. So basically backwards. For the first 2 months I didnt even wipe out the portafilters between shots or much less own a scale. I was using a mazzer mini doser with probably the oldest burrs on the planet. I overfilled the portafilter, swiped off, and pretty sure I was using something like a 55mm tamper that cost like 5 bucks. I had a lapavoni pub that leaked and had all kinds of issues. After 6 months of barely breaking even I knew there had to be a better way to make coffee that makes people pass up the Starbucks less than a mile away. The first thing I discovered while searching was HB, and 5 years later here we are. I scoured these forums for 4 years beefing up my barista game before even posting. So I'll shut up now and just say thank you for showing me the way and helping me become a barista.

Hi! What a wonderful machine you have!

I've got an odd question/request. Could you take measurements of the rear plate (the one that wraps around the back side of your boiler) and attaches to the pieces of metal used to direct hot air/flame from the gas kit?

I have a much more stock 2-group Astoria but I added the propane kit myself. I've always struggled with less than optimal heating and the "kit" never came with the correct parts. I'm still missing the rear heat shield! I fabricated a bunch of parts and those worked, then I finally found a place to buy the side pieces but I would like to fabricate a new piece on the back. Your advice/help would be really tremendous if you are willing to take some photos and make some measurements of that piece.

Congratulations on a wonderful new machine. The 2-group Astoria machines (and other CMA type machines) running propane are truly a delight to use!

Most definitely! I'll do it this weekend. The top and back panels take a little work to get off and I don't have the time during the week. I'll do it Sunday when I'll be around the machine all day!

Ellejaycafe wrote: A couple of question regarding the way the shots pulled.
1) the shot stopped running at about 34 grams, I pulled it away at 32. I thought these commercial levers gave closer to 40-45 gram shots and you pulled the shotaway at your desired weight. I do have SOEs that need 40, and sometimes 45g yields. What's the answer here? How do I affect how much yield I will get out of one pull? I have t read much info except the Fellini move, which shouldn't be needed on a commercial lever right?

Yield potential on a lever group is dependent on how much water gets into the group / coffee before you lift the lever. This means that to get more yeild you could:
* preinfuse longer, giving the water more time to work its way through the coffee puck
* grind coarser, making it easier for the water to work its way through the coffee puck
* increase your preinfusion pressure (probably involves increasing your boiler pressure)
* do some of those hands-y Fellini type maneuvers.

All of the above will have some sort of impact on the coffee, so choose wisely!

Regarding specifically the Fellini, I've never used it on any commercial lever for fear of thrashing the puck and getting inconsistent results. Your mileage may very.

Regarding needing a 45g yeild for specific SOs, your group should be able to get you there; you may find though that with the lever's gentle preinfusion and slowly descending pressure profile you can get a very tasty SO with 30 grams or less by slowing the flow so that it takes 40 or so more seconds to produce. I prefer my SO shots this way.

Also to note, higher doses of coffee will negatively affect potential yield since bigger coffee pucks absorb more water.
EDIT: I forgot to finish this thought: You could try downdosing as well because levers seem to prefer lower doses than pump machines. My normal dose range is between 14 and 18g. I also use VST baskets, I have the 15g and 18g versions.

Ellejaycafe wrote: 2) do levers in general give a smoother, lighter mouthfeel? I quite enjoyed it. My Aurelia shots run 100% crema on this coffee, between6-7 days post roast it has a foamy quality that I don't like and then settles down with more age.

Smooth I suppose is a good way to describe the mouthfeel of a lever shot compared to that of a pump.

Depending on the coffee I can get a lot of crema, but rarely 100% crema with a lever. You will notice that the crema bubbles from a lever shot are smaller and more "condensed" than that of a pump; this certainly contributes to its body perception on your tongue.

Ellejaycafe wrote: 3)my right group, the new lever style, leaks around where the piston is screwed in. It was leaking when I got it, but the gasket had gone bad. I replaced it today and still leaks. Is there a trick to using these gaskets? It's obviously not making a perfect seal. So I haven't used that group yet.

I would have to see how you installed them, maybe you still have a bad gasket? How much lubricant did you use? I had a group start leaking but the seal still looked good, another application of Dow111 stopped the leak.

Ellejaycafe wrote: As a side note I'm going to rant for a few and give big props to the community here. So far I'm loving the machine and love that I finally own a lever. I have dreamed of owning a vintage 2 group lever for the past 5 years. I have a lot to learn and HB has taught me just about everything I know about coffee, so thank you guys, seriously THANK YOU; and I hope you don't mind answering some of my newbie questions regarding levers. As I own a coffee shop with 2 employees, my wife and I, there isnt a wealth of coffee knowledge or people to taste test with, bounce ideas off of. My only other coffee experience was being a manager at Starbucks for 2 years. When I bought the shop I was trained the "second wave" way. So basically backwards. For the first 2 months I didnt even wipe out the portafilters between shots or much less own a scale. I was using a mazzer mini doser with probably the oldest burrs on the planet. I overfilled the portafilter, swiped off, and pretty sure I was using something like a 55mm tamper that cost like 5 bucks. I had a lapavoni pub that leaked and had all kinds of issues. After 6 months of barely breaking even I knew there had to be a better way to make coffee that makes people pass up the Starbucks less than a mile away. The first thing I discovered while searching was HB, and 5 years later here we are. I scoured these forums for 4 years beefing up my barista game before even posting. So I'll shut up now and just say thank you for showing me the way and helping me become a barista.

I wish your business continued success!

ira wrote:Tripping a GFCI should never happen, it indicates a problem or water dripping on live wires.

Ira

+1. Funny, that happened with my Caravel when a wee bit of water escaped the kettle while I was pouring in.

dominico wrote:Yield potential on a lever group is dependent on how much water gets into the group / coffee before you lift the lever. This means that to get more yeild you could:
* preinfuse longer, giving the water more time to work its way through the coffee puck
* grind coarser, making it easier for the water to work its way through the coffee puck
* increase your preinfusion pressure (probably involves increasing your boiler pressure)
* do some of those hands-y Fellini type maneuvers.

All of the above will have some sort of impact on the coffee, so choose wisely!

Regarding specifically the Fellini, I've never used it on any commercial lever for fear of thrashing the puck and getting inconsistent results. Your mileage may very.

Regarding needing a 45g yeild for specific SOs, your group should be able to get you there; you may find though that with the lever's gentle preinfusion and slowly descending pressure profile you can get a very tasty SO with 30 grams or less by slowing the flow so that it takes 40 or so more seconds to produce. I prefer my SO shots this way.

Also to note, higher doses of coffee will negatively affect potential yield since bigger coffee pucks absorb more water.
EDIT: I forgot to finish this thought: You could try downdosing as well because levers seem to prefer lower doses than pump machines. My normal dose range is between 14 and 18g. I also use VST baskets, I have the 15g and 18g versions.

I had a little longer today to pull more shots and noticed most of the above regarding yield, among other things. Going off of flavor alone I could tell my first few sessions were all overextracted. The flavors didn't taste like a high temp issue, more like shots that ran too long on a pump machine. I made the grind coarser and preinfused longer to make the best shots of the day. Doing this definitely produced a higher yield after pulling the shot away, I'd guess 40-45 grams total.

I also planned on trying the VST baskets with a lighter coffee.

Smooth I suppose is a good way to describe the mouthfeel of a lever shot compared to that of a pump.

Depending on the coffee I can get a lot of crema, but rarely 100% crema with a lever. You will notice that the crema bubbles from a lever shot are smaller and more "condensed" than that of a pump; this certainly contributes to its body perception on your tongue.

The shots today were even smoother and with brighter acidity, touch heavier mouthfeel too. The best shots were a 10 second preinfusion, 18in:34out and running the shot 20-23 seconds from when I lifted the lever. This really brought back that plum like acidity I usually get in this blend and made the general acidity brighter than on my pump machine (at the loss of some nuttiness). One of the best straight shots I've had with this blend. The lever definitely makes the coffee taste quite different.

I would have to see how you installed them, maybe you still have a bad gasket? How much lubricant did you use? I had a group start leaking but the seal still looked good, another application of Dow 111 stopped the leak.

Funny thing, I thought of this before I fired her up today. No more leaks.

I wish your business continued success!

Thank you so very much! Have two events booked in October so here's hoping I get the lever figured out by then

As a bit of info, I've visited "Ellejay" (William's) cafe several times, and have always enjoyed the coffee. As you can tell by his quite touching earlier posting, he is a really good guy to boot.

William, Yes, grind slightly coarser. As I know your "house blend", I'd eschew the VST basket, as you'd haver to grind correspondingly finer, and defeat the purpose of your lever. IMO, what you're looking for is a drip or 3 after a 10 second pre infuse, slowly raise the lever and hold it a few inches up for maybe 3 counts, then allow it to raise. My best shots happen when the lever starts it's upward climb right around 40% up....with 18 grams in an HQ basket, that should give you a total yield...assuming you don't "blonde" quickly...at around 38 grams, give or take. That depends in part on the pressure of your lever, and the moisture content of your coffee.

The thing is, with ANY lever, do NOT expect to get quite as much crema or as viscous a shot. Do expect the redder crema on occasion, a more "layered" shot, possibly a touch sweeter. Swirl the cup as you would with your awesome Aurelia. Great coffee from that girl.
I forgot if this is a single or double spring?

Excited for you! Please let me know when I can come try it. I can bring the Sette for some comparisons as well.

IMAWriter wrote: The thing is, with ANY lever, do NOT expect to get quite as much crema or as viscous a shot.

Hi Rob,

Could you explain further the part about crema? I can often get 100% crema on my lever so I was a bit surprised. Is it because the lower lever pressure? But what I can say for sure is the crema is quite different than on a pump - it's more 'integrated'/silky on the lever, rather than bubbly/airy on pump.


Hi William,
Congrats on the lever! I have not posted but has been reading enviously and silently until now. Beautiful machine!

samuellaw178 wrote:Hi Rob,

Could you explain further the part about crema? I can often get 100% crema on my lever so I was a bit surprised. Is it because the lower lever pressure? But what I can say for sure is the crema is quite different than on a pump - it's more 'integrated'/silky on the lever, rather than bubbly/airy on pump.

I tend to NOT use a bottomless PF on certain coffees, as I don't want that airy foamy crema. William Aurelia puts out more crema than about any machine in memory. So, in comparison I knew his lever wouldn't match that. I guess I may have been speaking more about levers like my old Cremina, La Pavoni, and especially the MCAL in regards to less crema. As my Strega is double spring, crema is copious from most blends. That said, crema is about 3rd down the line of what I desire from a shot. Often I attempt to mimic Jim Schulman's recipe (grind and pull techniques) for a sweeter shot, which can mean less crema, but increased sweetness.


Apologies to William for the slight off topic!!

Hey, love the machine. Was coincidentally just looking at the original thread the other day! I have an older CMA/Wega lever too that I stripped down and rebuilt - they seem absolutely solid. I'm just debating what to do with ours, as it's more or less just exposed at the minute, save a few panels. Ours is propane converted too however we seem to have a problem with the gas auto regulator as it does not modulate the flame - it seems to just continue heating and allowing pressure to build and build, so we have a fun game of purging the steam wands to bring it back to earth whenever we're not busy.

Tried twisting the nut as per the manual, but seems to do nothing! Wish we could get it working as well as our newer propane machine!

I can agree with dosing down for the lever machine. Our newer Wega Lever doesn't like doses over 18, and often we get the best results from 16-16.5g doses. We definitely get a lower shot volume with it too, which is way more pronounced on bigger doses i.e. more water getting absorbed. Still can get 40 grams but we tend to cut the shots at about 35g.

I've spoke with people in the past about really tightening the grind up and doing a double pull with the lever but never tried it though it is something I'm keen to do. Apparently you can achieve a really dense and full bodied shot this way. These shots would obviously take a lot longer to pull, in the region of 45-50 seconds. It probably depends a lot on bean choice to pull this off too. Any thoughts on this?

Good to see more people in the mobile industry! I'm in the UK and have a few pop ups. Definitely has it's difficulties, especially when most places don't permit massive generators to run all of the equipment you'd like too and you're stuck running on a small generator or their often, 13 amp supply!