Dear all,

Great to be here! I'm the happy owner of a La Pavoni Europiccola which I bought new 5 years ago. No complaint, having done my reading in here and after a couple of years of practice I now prepare coffee that I'm really happy with, it's one of my favorite things.

For quite some time I had noticed water around the machine but (stupidly enough) I never really associated with the machine. Well until a few days ago. Taking the bottom off I was shocked to come across the following picture:



Tons of rust (all hidden below the base - It should have been dripping right from the beginning!) and water dripping from one of the bolts that hold the heating element when the machine reaches operating temperature. I've tried to determine why this is happening but everything seems in-order. I've unplugged all electricals, unscrewed the heating element and here is my plan:
- Take the rust off (I have 180, 280 & 400 sandpaper at hand).
- Apply some kind of protection to protect the Chrome from rusting again.
- Replace the gasket (O ring) that insulates the boiler from the base.
- Add another nut on the screw that leaks: I have the sense that it doesn't screw all the way and that is part of the problem.

I would really appreciate your feedback on the above:
a) Overall any comments?
b) Any ideas on how to coat the Chrome to protect it in the future? This is important right?
c) Do I need any kind of grease or insulator when installing the O'Ring?
d) There is just a bit of rust in the area where the boiler touches the top of the base. As I see it the only way of removing it and replacing the seal is by removing the boiler which requires special tooling, am I correct here? Is it too much of a risk leaving it there?
e) Any other thoughts are welcome.

thank you in advance!

Belbo

It is difficult to see from the picture how deep the rust has gone into the sheet metal. (It is often difficult to tell, even when looking at it directly.) You must remember that iron rusting in air is autocatalytic. Thus when rust remains in contact with it, the rusting will continue. If the rusting be superficial, you can sand it off, and then coat with anti rust paint. The coating needs to be thick enough too!

You probably should remove the boiler from the base as badly rusted as it seems to be in order to remove all the rust properly.

I am not sure what would happen if you attempted electrolytic rust removal which certainly would remove it all. I would worry that it might have a devastating effect on the chrome plating too, unless you confined the contact with the electrolyte to the inside of the base by placing a large stopper in the opening where the boiler sit and filling the base with the electrolyte rather than immerse the whole base.

New bases cost somewhere around $100 in chromed steel, I believe. Real brass ones are substantially more.

Normally one always lubricates O rings on installation.

Some La Pavoni machines have security TORX screws to hold the base on. If one were cynical about it, one might suspect that this is to increase sales of replacement bases! In reality it makes sense to remove the sub base at least every month or two to inspect for leaks and damage.

Robert thank you for your answer!

I think removing the boiler is just too much for my level of experience with the machine. But I will try to send the area around it that is rusty and attempt to paint it as well as much as possible. I've found a heat-resistant paint and that is what I'm going to be using.

I totally agree about your comment for the torx screws. I didn't look under the hood for years simply because I didn't have the right tool (which I now just bought) and it could be a hazard + completely ruin my base.

Could you please elaborate a bit more on what kind of lubrication the O'Ring might need (remember this is a non-moving part).

Thank you again!

Panos

I have used the same type of "silicone" material that I have used for moving parts, equivalent to Dow 111. I believe Dow makes a similar material that is designed to cause the O ring to swell slightly for better seal, but I have used that.

I think it might be best to use anti rust paint that you put on with a brush rather than from spray tin in your case, that way you can put it just where you want it. I think that it would be best if you were to cover the entire inner part of the base with the stuff. It might be a good idea first to "spot" the paint on with a small brush over all the places where the rust was, and then make a second coat to cover the rest of the base. The area around the boiler gets quite hot, about 120 degrees, so be sure the rust resistant material is designed to be at least that hot.

Are there any holes in the plastic sub base on yours? I saw one that had holes in it to allow air to circulate, I do not know if the person with that one got it that way or if he bored holes in the plastic with a drill bit or end mill.

I had rust just starting on my 2002 Europiccola and just fixed the leak of the boiler seal and coated the inside of the base with RustOleum. Here's that thread FYI:

Servicing Boiler Gaskets and Base on La Pavoni Millennium Model

For rust like that I wonder if it would help to upend the machine and apply something like Naval Jelly to dissolve the rust? In my repair I did not entirely remove the boiler but removed the heating element and all wires. I then thoroughly taped off and sealed the boiler at the bottom while applying RustOleum.

If you decide to use a rust remover like Naval Jelly it might be easier to remove the base from the boiler so you can thoroughly rinse it.

Belbo wrote:I think removing the boiler is just too much for my level of experience with the machine.

The way to develop that experience is to try that repair if needed. You're already rolling up your sleeves to do some good work on it.

Hello again,

I just finished sanding the inside and it's very clean now. It was a lot of work though: the rust had gone very deep. I don't have special anti-rust paint so I'm just going to be using Aluminum paint resistant to heat. We'll see how well it stands over time. I'm thinking of applying 2 coatings over the next few days, just to make sure.

Robert thank you for your tips on applying the O Ring I will look into it.

Gary it's quite impressive what you did, I'm doing something similar so I hope I end-up with such a good result as well.

Another quetion from me: as I was dissasembling the base, the small pole where the terminal block sits got broken. It's important because (I think) that it is also being used as ground. I now need to glue metal on metal, maintaining electrical conductivity, any ideas?

thank you again both!

Panos

Are there any holes in the plastic sub base on yours? I saw one that had holes in it to allow air to circulate, I do not know if the person with that one got it that way or if he bored holes in the plastic with a drill bit or end mill.

Robert, forgot to mention that there are indeed holes on the bottom (12 small ones), definitely helps and a good security in my opinion. I cannot imagine what would happen if I've gotten a serious leak without this.

regards,

Panos

You should consider etching the sanded metal with Metal Prep or one of the liquid rust removers that contains phosphoric acid. This will kill the rust in the pores (turns the rust black) that sanding won't touch. After that rinse, dry & apply your paint.

Belbo wrote:I don't have special anti-rust paint so I'm just going to be using Aluminum paint resistant to heat. We'll see how well it stands over time. I'm thinking of applying 2 coatings over the next few days, just to make sure.

Panos:

If you want a good result you're better off using the right materials. A high temperature rust sealing paint should be on your shopping list.

Belbo wrote:Hello again,

I just finished sanding the inside and it's very clean now. It was a lot of work though: the rust had gone very deep. I don't have special anti-rust paint so I'm just going to be using Aluminum paint resistant to heat. We'll see how well it stands over time. I'm thinking of applying 2 coatings over the next few days, just to make sure.

Robert thank you for your tips on applying the O Ring I will look into it.

Gary it's quite impressive what you did, I'm doing something similar so I hope I end-up with such a good result as well.

Another quetion from me: as I was dissasembling the base, the small pole where the terminal block sits got broken. It's important because (I think) that it is also being used as ground. I now need to glue metal on metal, maintaining electrical conductivity, any ideas?

thank you again both!

Panos

By "small pole" are you referring to the stud the terminal block attaches to? Did it break clean at the base, or above where the ground attaches? If the ground is still intact, you could just leave the block loose, but tied so as to not move about. If broken at the base, you might try silver soldering it back on, but it may not have enough strength to tighten the ground. No 'glue' will work, and not sure if JB Weld is strong enough or has enough conductivity. If another stud is not available for the ground, and just about anything making good contact with the base will do, a not so elegant fix would be to drill through the base and attach the ground and block with a screw and nut. Don't forget to remove paint from area where the ground attaches.

On a side note, It is always better to use proper tools and materials for the job rather than hacking it with whatever is on hand. Especially where water, heat, electricals, and steam are concerned, and you want it to survive in the long term. As a tech, I've spent good money on good tools, and they have always paid for themselves. Poor tools have mostly cost me more in time and frustration in the end. I've just gotten into this espresso thing and have already amassed a collection of single purpose stuff, and a good deal of the time spent on the repairs has been spent hunting for materials and tools and waiting for them to arrive.

Hope it all works out for you.