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La Riviera Refurb - Page 6

Postby simonarcher on Mon May 18, 2009 3:26 pm

Thanks Doug, as usual. I will give your suggestions a try and see what I can rig. I'm a little perplexed by the issue because when I originally took it apart this cap slid out - it must have been this way for a while. Anyway, I'll post a couple of more pictures of it just for clarity and then try some MacGyver magic.

Here is the assembly expanded.

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and again

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and here is the tip out of the wand itself...where it should not be.

Image

and finally, the other parts of the machine, just for reference.

Image

and these.

Image

So now I'll turn to the fixes.
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Postby michaelbenis on Mon May 18, 2009 4:35 pm

Are the modern Zacconis any different? They look the same.

Do you want me to give them call?
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Postby ademello72 on Mon May 18, 2009 7:26 pm

I believe the modern Zacconi's differ in some ways - I was fortunate enough to see a "modern" Zacconi apart whilst visiting Thomas Cara and Sons in SF recently - Major difference was the heating element. The older Eagles have the round screw-in element from the bottom, where as the "newer" ones had a 4 bolt-in element from the top.
I also seem to recall from elsewhere on HB that the newer machine had different sized piston gaskets etc. that weren't 100% compatible (I can't locate that thread right now though) - I'll sure other will jump in as well and mention any differences
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Postby michaelbenis on Mon May 18, 2009 7:46 pm

But if the steam wand valve is the same, maybe they can send replacement rubber/cup parts....
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Postby Trajic on Tue May 19, 2009 5:59 am

Interesting and quite informative post. Maybe I'll give mine another chance. I honestly did not know that the button on the top of the base next to the water inlet was part of the water inlet. Seems self intuitive but it eluded me.
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Postby simonarcher on Tue May 19, 2009 5:08 pm

michaelbenis wrote:Are the modern Zacconis any different? They look the same.

Do you want me to give them call?


Michael -- I'll try Doug's fixes first, before pulling the trigger on actually calling the shop. But any insight you have into the way the plug was originally inserted into the steam valve is helpful.

I'm going to take some high-res photos (in good light) of the pieces and post them to troll for solutions.

If push comes to show, I'll seek replacement parts but I feel as if I should be able to MacGyver something out here.
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Postby simonarcher on Tue May 19, 2009 5:15 pm

Trajic wrote:Interesting and quite informative post. Maybe I'll give mine another chance. I honestly did not know that the button on the top of the base next to the water inlet was part of the water inlet. Seems self intuitive but it eluded me.


Brett: yep, it is a pretty simple little device but I have a sense that not properly monitored, it could give problems. However, something kinky about being able to push a button and refill the boiler, no? I am still testing this one out but it seems to work well at this point after being neglected.

Another thing I'm finding as I do the testing (before I give this one away to a friend who sent me to Italy on points last year) is that it gets hot. I know that sounds stupid, all these naked boiler models get pretty damn hot, but I find there to be some serious conductivity happening -- the group gets hot of course, but faster than my Cremina, and the base itself warms up significantly. I'm going to get one of Richard's tape/thermometers and do some readings. I can also see why the original had so much teflon as heat break seals. I have had no real problems yet but it is something I have noticed. And I'm still testing for pressure and functionality, not yet pulling doubles on it until I get the steam valve problem worked out.
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Postby Trajic on Wed May 20, 2009 1:36 am

That is interesting- filling the boiler at the press of a button. I wonder it if it really worked as advertised. The theory seems sound but I can see it not working out so well in practice. I fill my machines manually with a pitcher of filtered water I keep at the ready. Hooking up a water fill valve and maintaining it seems like too much trouble for a home machine. I also like to take a peak in the boilers with a flashlight when I fill them but that's just me.

I remember my machine getting pretty hot which also surprised me. I was expecting it to run cooler than a Europiccola which turned out to not be the case.

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Postby simonarcher on Wed May 20, 2009 11:54 am

Trajic wrote:That is interesting- filling the boiler at the press of a button. I wonder it if it really worked as advertised. The theory seems sound but I can see it not working out so well in practice. I fill my machines manually with a pitcher of filtered water I keep at the ready. Hooking up a water fill valve and maintaining it seems like too much trouble for a home machine. I also like to take a peak in the boilers with a flashlight when I fill them but that's just me.

I remember my machine getting pretty hot which also surprised me. I was expecting it to run cooler than a Europiccola which turned out to not be the case.

Brett


Agreed with all of that Brett -- we are ad idem. I've seen some plumbed machines on this site but never had one working plumbed myself. One day, when I graduate and get a real espresso bar...
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Postby simonarcher on Wed May 20, 2009 12:02 pm

I am trying to do the sweeper duties here on this thread and gather what useful technical information and other tips I can on the Riviera, so I'm going to try and list some useful things that were sent to me via PM during the refurb. I'm also trying to track down copies of the patents for this machine (and others) because those schematics make very useful reference materials, I find, and the manuals are ok, but lack measurements and dimensions, etc.

One set of comments I had were from Hedley Lamar. I am so sorry Hedley that I did not get around to a longer discussion with you this spring about the heating element. I hope you don't mind if I post your core suggestions to me -- which were in the context of "what to do if the element is $%%^&%?"

Hedley was very, very generous with his time and his knowledge and I thought it was really worth passing along. He writes:

I hope I can be of assistance. Concerning the broken leads which usually protrude from the element. I have never tackled that repair. I would be leery to perform a repair in that location. The heating elements are constructed via a porcelain and chrome wire mix. It is very easy to harm these when wrestling with dismantlement. I would be afraid that even if you did a excellent job of scarfing new material to your element you then discover that you have a crack or inop/burned out element. When I have repaired a Riviera with a inop. element I substitute a water heater element for the Zacconi element. The process to modify is as such and is actually very simple.

First you will need your old brass collar/element. Remove/cut off the element, leaving just the brass collar. You are going to bore a hole in the collar to the dimension of the outside circumference of your old element lead dimension to accept a copper water heater fitting which accepts a approx 8" 110v water heater element. I believe this is a 1.25" NPT thread adapter. Just head to a plumbing supply or big box store and find a small screw in water heater element and then find the copper fitting which accepts this. The boring of the hole into your old brass element collar is a simple process. A lathe is required or drill press with proper hole bit. Once the hole is bored the copper water heater fitting is brazed into the your newly bored brass collar element. This could sound complex but is actually very simple. Please use non chromium containing brazing rod. I have written Mr. Penny about this modification and the question arises concerning the length of the water heater element verses the original element? Yes the water heater element is longer but when coupled with the new fitting the protrusion from the base of the boiler supplies a added head space and allows the attachment of the base bottom cover. If you fill your boiler to a level just below the steam wand pickup opening you are still able to pull 3+ double shots in succession before exposing the top of the element. It sounds complex but does work very well. The added benefit is the large savings in cost and availability of elements for machine replacement. When shopping for the modification pieces pickup a cheapo water heater element wrench they are $5.00 or so. If you happen to run your machine dry and burn out the element the fix/replacement is a quick repair. Usually 10 minutes at most.

There is one modification to these machines which I'm looking to the future to perform. This is increasing the spring tension with a stronger spring. Rivieras do make a nice cup but I believe they could approach the creama production of top line pump machines with a stronger extraction spring. Please feel free to write or give me your cell number and we could talk things over.


Yes, that is some DIY! Hedley, I am tempted to crack open another Riv just to try that out. I am also keen to stiffen up the spring. So, if you have specs on a stiffer spring, let's try it. Meanwhile, I'll text you just to thank you again for your help.
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