Good day all,

I am the proud owner of a pre-mil La Pav Pro which I secured through eBay for the bargain price of $150. After postage and some TLC parts provided by orphan espresso I finally set upon the task of making espresso. While waiting for my parts to arrive I researched everything I could find on gasket replacement (the flange OE sell really makes the job a lot easier), and then everything I could find on extraction.

Now there is a lot of contradicting info out there (guess there are a hundred ways to skin a cat), so i was hoping for a little direction on a couple of topics.

First of, I'm battling to get anywhere near 1.5 oz of espresso out of the double basket. I have reverted to three full pulls on the lever, but that comes at the cost of quality, to get around the 1.5 mark. I have tried Fellini but the volume is reduced below 1.5. I have read (and agree) quality over quantity, but because I drink mostly cappuccinos (I save the espresso for when I'm studying), I'm having difficulty getting the milk to espresso ratio about right. Any pointers on how much milk to add so that the espresso remains full-bodied?

Of course this will only work if the shot itself is sorted. Regarding pre-infusion; I have read between 6-10s. My question on pre-infusion: does a longer pre-infusion run the risk of over-extraction? If doing multiple pulls should pre-infusion be omitted? And finally how long does it take the group head to fill? I have read that when you cant hear the water (sucking sound) after raising the lever the group is full, but mine seems to be silencing after 2sec - is that about right?

How hard should it be to pull the lever? Problem here is I gym a lot so for me to exert myself to pull the lever is way too much force - I dont think anyone could over guidance here, but I thought I would mention it.

Timing of the shot: 20-30s extraction for pump machines. For lever machines; from when you start filling the group, or start pulling the lever down (bearing in mind the first 20% of travel has no resistance), or when the shot starts to flow?

I have read that the machine is good for two shots before it overheats and starts producing dishwater. Do I need to adjust grind between those two shots (coarse as it gets hotter)? Also a cold/damp bar towel between the first and second shot's a good idea or non-effective?

And lastly, and I have an idea most importantly; I read pressure should be in the region of 0.8-0.9 on the gauge. Mine runs up to about 1.2 before cutting off and dropping back to around 1.1 (false pressure removed). The gauge, however, never reduces to zero under atmospheric pressure (always sits at around 0.25 - unless the machine cools and then it pulls back to zero until the boiler cap is opened). To counter possible overheating of water I have started the extraction as the gauge hits 1.0, before it stabilises at 1.2, with no noticeable affect.

I have toy-ed with the idea of pulling the double basket with a fellini, immediately switching to the single for a single pull. That would probably get to around 2oz of espresso - any thoughts?

Anyway thanks for any input received, I think my group head has cooled sufficiently so I'm going to go dial the grind one finer and try again.

Congratulations on the Pavoni.

I have a two-year-old PRH. My very brief answers to your questions would be this:

Settle for less than 1.5oz and don't do multiple pulls. Do a preinfusion only. Make your cappuccinos with less and less milk until you achieve the flavor you want. I have some cups that are just shy of 5 US fl oz (approx. 4.75), and they seem to work just fine.

I am a pretty skinny guy, but I've already bent my grouphead a bit. It's angled downward slightly. Be careful.

Don't worry too much about trying to hit pump-machine-based targets. Experiment and find what you like the best.

I've pulled some shots at 1.2 and some at 0.8. I think it'll depend on the beans more than anything.

Read SlowRain's response as it's dead-on!

paulvin wrote:First of, I'm battling to get anywhere near 1.5 oz of espresso out of the double basket. I have reverted to three full pulls on the lever, but that comes at the cost of quality, to get around the 1.5 mark. I have tried Fellini but the volume is reduced below 1.5. I have read (and agree) quality over quantity, but because I drink mostly cappuccinos (I save the espresso for when I'm studying), I'm having difficulty getting the milk to espresso ratio about right. Any pointers on how much milk to add so that the espresso remains full-bodied?

Give up on a 1.5 oz shot. 1.25 is about right. As for the amount of milk, totally depends on your taste. Personally, I think a 5 oz total is the tops for a La Pavoni, but that's just me.

Pre-infusion - 6 - 10 seconds is plenty; you just want to saturate the puck. Never omit this step. Also, 2 seconds to fill the grouphead is about right.

paulvin wrote:How hard should it be to pull the lever?

Timing of the shot: 20-30s extraction for pump machines. For lever machines...

I have read that the machine is good for two shots before it overheats and starts producing dishwater. Do I need to adjust grind between those two shots (coarse as it gets hotter)?

I have toy-ed with the idea of pulling the double basket with a fellini, immediately switching to the single for a single pull. That would probably get to around 2oz of espresso - any thoughts?

Put your machine on a bathroom scale. Shoot for 30lbs of pressure when pulling the shot. Tailor to suit your taste.

Shots should run 20 - 30 seconds AFTER the pre-infusion, but once again, this is adjusted to taste.

Adjusting grind to tackle overheat is useless and will have you chasing your tail. Your machine should not overheat with only two pulls. If you are waiting in-between pulls, shut the machine off. Turn the machine on when ready to pull another.

The double then single pull idea...have you ever heard of the portafilter sneeze? If not, do your proposed routine and you'll probably get to experience it first hand. don't do it.

Good luck, and just pull shots and adjust your routine until you are happy with the results.

I don't do multiple pulls because I feel like it will disrupt the puck. I only do one pull and volume comes second to taste. You can get more than an ounce out though with a single pull as long as the espresso is ground and dosed well. I dose around 15 grams and I care less about pull pressure than having normal looking streams of espresso from the portafilter. You'll get the feel for if it's too tough or too easy to pull.

TheMuffinMan01 wrote:I dose around 15 grams and I care less about pull pressure than having normal looking streams of espresso from the portafilter. You'll get the feel for if it's too tough or too easy to pull.

So true. Measuring your pressure on a scale with educate you on what it should feel like, but after a few pulls it becomes second nature.

I think you need to throw out the idea of hitting the targets you see a lot...when people are talking about 1.5oz doubles in ~25s they're using big 58mm portafilters in semi-auto machines. Usually they're using much more coffee than you can possibly fit in a pre-millenium La Pavoni portafilter...something like 18g or even more. Personally I've never been able to get more than 15g into my La Pavoni double basket...but usually I use 12g for dark roasts and 14g for light roasts. If you run a quantity of water through 18g of coffee to make a perfectly extracted shot then run the same quantity of water through 14g of coffee the 14g's of coffee are going to be overextracted if everything else is the same. La Pavoni is a small machine and it doesn't hold much coffee pulling the lever a bunch of times is going to give you thin, overextracted coffee.

What I suggest is use a scale to weigh your dose every time so that you can control this variable. Second only make a single pull on the lever....multiple pulls you'll just get lots of blonde overextracted coffee, which is usually bitter. Third taste every shot...tasting will tell you a lot more than appearance ever will. And lastly when you make adjustments only change one variable at a time...so if you adjust your grinder setting try to do everything else exactly the same as the last shot.

As for the cappuccinos....I'd suggest focusing on straight shots for now until you can get them to taste their best....it'll improve your cappuccinos a lot starting with a great shot. Also like others have suggested try making smaller cappuccinos. La Pavoni is for making short Italian style drinks not tall American style drinks

Thanks for all the replies - its really great to see people willing to share their knowelege so readily and quickly.

uscfroadie wrote:Read SlowRain's response as it's dead-on!

The double then single pull idea...have you ever heard of the portafilter sneeze? If not, do your proposed routine and you'll probably get to experience it first hand. don't do it.

Good luck, and just pull shots and adjust your routine until you are happy with the results.

Read a lot on the "sneeze" and was able to aviod it by gently, and very slowly turning the portafilter while wiggling it to reduce the pressure. The shot was rather full bodied but I consider this cheating so I wont be doing it again.

entropyembrace wrote:I think you need to throw out the idea of hitting the targets you see a lot...when people are talking about 1.5oz doubles in ~25s they're using big 58mm portafilters in semi-auto machines. Usually they're using much more coffee than you can possibly fit in a pre-millenium La Pavoni portafilter...something like 18g or even more. Personally I've never been able to get more than 15g into my La Pavoni double basket...but usually I use 12g for dark roasts and 14g for light roasts. If you run a quantity of water through 18g of coffee to make a perfectly extracted shot then run the same quantity of water through 14g of coffee the 14g's of coffee are going to be overextracted if everything else is the same. La Pavoni is a small machine and it doesn't hold much coffee pulling the lever a bunch of times is going to give you thin, overextracted coffee.

As for the cappuccinos....I'd suggest focusing on straight shots for now until you can get them to taste their best....it'll improve your cappuccinos a lot starting with a great shot. Also like others have suggested try making smaller cappuccinos. La Pavoni is for making short Italian style drinks not tall American style drinks

Also I never considered the variable that changing dose would effect extraction for the same amount of water, but it makes sense.

entropyembrace; if you have the variables just right for double basket with 14g, and you switch to a single with 9g, I'm guessing that's going to be overextracted. Seeing you cant change the volume of water per shot (one pull is a set volume that fills the group head - the only change being the very small volume difference between the single and double basket), would you grind coarser or finer to stay within optimum extraction? I am weighing my doses (accuracy to the rounded off gram - not the best I know).

One pull on my lever gives me 25ml of espresso. I had thin crema that dissipated rather quickly, but the shot was rather sweet without any bitterness. The beans were roasted 10 days ago (95% Arabica/5% Robusta), and ground just before use of a La Pavoni Jolly. Portafilter was heated as was cup. Lever did seem to come down rather quickly which was strange seeing I had dialled up finer (Also I have just replaced the gaskets, so can I expect the lever to get a little "looser" as it beds in?). The dose was only 10g in the double basket.

Again, thanks for all the guidance.

I honestly don't use the single basket anymore...it's a lot easier to get good results with the double basket imo...but the best results with the single basket I was grinding finer than what I am with 12-14g in the double basket.