La Pavoni experience/questions

#1: Post by **catweasel** » January 3rd, 2014, 2:31 pm

Hello:
I am a long-time espresso/cappuccino drinker and have just purchased my first home setup. After some reading of forums and talking to "experts" in the specialty shops, I have settled on a new La Pavoni Professional lever machine and an Anfim Best grinder. The hands-on aspect speaks to me - I am a university professor. I have had the system for a while over the break and have enough experience with it to ask some intelligent questions and hopefully understand your replies. I hope to draw from the forum's very experienced members. Here are the top 2 on my list.

1) I am getting consistent 16-16.5 gm dosing in the double basket which produces a 31-33 gm shot in the range of 20-30 seconds. From what I read, this is desirable. I am making a single pull and see no evidence of blonding when the piston finishes its metered volume (no naked portafilter - yet). I am still struggling with temperature consistency, but my percentage of better shots is improving. Is this fixed volume a big limitation of the La Pavoni? From what I am reading one should be determining the end of the shot interactively and not simply stoping when the water runs out. I have been hesitant to double pull as it seems to me to have disadvantages (head/boiler contamination and the puck channeling). Has anyone else worried about this?

2) I am having real trouble getting decent microfoam with 3% or 1.5% milk (even tried Latte-art milk, 2.6% fat with added protein). I have a 0.35l stainless steel can and have been practicing with the soapy water technique (à la Scott Rao video) and think I see my problem. The milk does foam/stretch, yet is heating quickly (disadvantage of small can) which limits the stretching phase. Furthermore, the liquid never really "rolls" (vortexes) vigorously as advised by David Schomer. I have been systematically trying nozzle positions (horizontally and vertically) in the can with different volumes (more easily seen with the soapy water than milk). I read that others are successful. Schomer maintains he cannot get good results with a three-hole nozzle (standard on the La Pavoni). Before I start designing my own asymmetrical/angled outlet nozzle tips, does anyone have any suggestions?

Thanks!

#2: Post by **forbeskm** » January 3rd, 2014, 4:21 pm

I have always struggled with good microfoam on the Pavoni. I use the single tip with the assistance of a frother. Careful with the frother usage, I try to use it to keep my whirlpool going versus just foam. Usually it works out rather well but I am sure no where near a pump machine.

There is another thread on here on using Aeropress microfilters on top of the tamped coffee. Filters I can find at my local place for 4 dollars for 350 I think. I love this idea and it allows for moving of the lever without sucking the fine grounds back into the boiler. I just tamp, use my tamper to put the filter on top and pull. So if you have the filters, doing a double or partial second pull is easy and no cleanup, same for getting the air out if you move the lever around a bit at the top to suck in some extra water, the grounds stay where they are supposed to be.

I can't say I have measured like you have and I am sure more people here can speak to those numbers. I find the second shot I pull from my pavoni is consistently better than the first. Maybe I should let the group heat up a bit more. From what I read the Anfim Best is the same grinder as the Elektra MSC and is a very capable grinder for the Pavoni. 20-30 seconds is what I get, depending on the tamp, you can always put a bathroom scale under the portafilter basket when you tamp and experiment with different tamp pressures for each grind. I had to do that until I finally got dialed in with my Pavoni's and the MSC.

Otherwise I don't worry too much, my shots taste great so I figure I am doing well

#3: Post by **happycat** » January 3rd, 2014, 4:29 pm

Put your frothing pitcher in your freezer to give extra time later when steaming milk.

January 3rd, 2014, 5:04 pm

Thanks forbeskm for the reflections. I did not know about the filters. Yes, that sounds like a good way to keep material from going back. Will have to see if I can get any here in Sweden.

Have not gotten to the freezer trick yet happycat. It does not seem immediately sustainable as I generally make foam individually for each cup and almost never drink alone. I do rinse and bring the stainless pitcher to about 4C before filling with milk.

I have started rotating the acorn nut slightly (still tight) and have found some orientations give a better roll from the positions I can reach with my can. There is not much space there next to the drain spout. Does not seem that ergonomics is their strongpoint.

I'm up for the challenge. The obsessive measuring is just an occupational hazard. I am just a newbie trying to find my way in this forrest of variables.

Am anxiously awaiting delivery of a "real" tamper that will fit the basket. Why does La Pavoni even bother to ship this plastic tamper with??

#5: Post by **flathead1** » January 3rd, 2014, 5:20 pm

There is an interim solution for the tip. Several people have recommended jamming toothpicks (shortened) in two of the three holes to approximate the steaming of a purchased one hole tip. I found the one hole was considerably easier.

#6: Post by **forbeskm** » January 3rd, 2014, 6:34 pm

I agree on the tamper, I think you will be much happier with one that fits the basket. Our shots were noticeably better with the right tamper.

@happycat, thanks, I forgot to mention that, I do freeze my pitchers, I have a rattleware or two so I always have one chilling.

#7: Post by **mathof** » January 4th, 2014, 8:28 am

You'll find a wealth of information on La Pavoni lever machines by searching in the Lever Forum. When doing so, bear in mind that you have a "Millennium" model machine. These are significantly different from pre-Millennium models (in general, those manufactured before the year 2000). The changes are primarily to do with the means of heating the group. When I first began to use these forums to improve espresso making on my 1999 LP-8, I was often confused by what seemed like contradictory or non-applicable suggestions. It was only when I understood exactly which machine I had, and in general how it worked, that I began to sort out what was relevant for me.

#8: Post by **rpavlis** » January 4th, 2014, 8:34 am

The way to get longer shots without problems with La Pavoni (and many other lever machines) is to make multiple short pulls, as I described a while back with MCALs. After about 5 to 8 mL pull the handle again and again. This way there will always be positive pressure in the group and you will not draw anything back into the machine nor fracture the puck.

Others may disagree with me, but all that really matters with foam is the wattage rating of the heating element and the tip construction. Heated steam at a given pressure is heated steam at a given pressure no matter what is on the other end. It is also my humble opinion that the shape, diameter of the hole, and number of holes in the steam tip is critical. There are engineering formulae that apply to this. In my experience a single hole steam tip is far better because the exit velocity is higher so it imparts greater energy to the milk. Here are two old posts about making them. (Note that the threads are different pitch on La Pavoni from MCAL, though both are M6.)

La Pavoni steam tip - How I made one:

One hole Elektra Microcasa a Leva steam tip

With La Pavoni, but not MCAL, you can take a M6 acorn nut of brass or stainless and bore a hole in it.

#9: Post by **trix** » January 4th, 2014, 10:06 am

I have a pre-millenium La Pavoni Pro. I normally use the single basket with between 8 and 9 grams of ground coffee.

I use the 3 hole tip with one hole plugged with the end of a toothpick. I store the frothing pitchers in the freezer. I use whole milk up to the widest part of my pitcher. When frothing, I open the valve 1/2 way or so...tipping the pitcher towards the boiler side a bit, keeping the tip just below the surface, and very near the inside edge as a fast vortex forms...you can almost rest the wand at the beak of the pitcher. I keep the tip by the edge as the steaming sound reaches the crescendo then starts to subside at which time you can move the nozzle a bit towards the center of the vortex, stopping as the sound diminishes...don't let the milk boil. You should get a nice microfoam with few bubbles.
This is pitcher I prefer to use:
http://www.espressoparts.com/espressopa ... _large.jpg

By the way, I also own a single hole tip....but it didn't work well for me...maybe the hole was too big...it heated the milk too fast for me and I felt like didn't have as much control.

#10: Post by **DanoM** » January 4th, 2014, 10:23 am

Steaming: I have a pre-millenium La Pavoni that I made a single hole steam tip for, and it works quite well for steaming in comparison to the original 3 holed tip that came with my machine. It did take quite a while to figure out creating the vortex, and getting the steaming right. Experiment with angling the pitcher, directing the steam towards one side to get a roll, angle of the steam wand and other things until you start to get good microfoam time after time.

My boiler runs just under 1 BAR pressure, so not very heavy steaming there, but enough pressure to make great foam with patience. Also use a 12oz pitcher, which helped steaming and vortex tremendously over the larger 20oz pitcher I used previously. Steaming milk for a cappuccino with this setup would be around 20 seconds. (With my NS Oscar and profuse steam I have about 8-10 seconds to get things right before the milk is too hot. It requires very different technique which you'll develop in time. Crossing back and forth between the machines does require a little relearning of technique for me.)