La Pavoni Europiccola: what volume of water should be lost through the group while heating up?

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AdrianN
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#1: Post by AdrianN »

Stumbling upon an add about a used Europiccola II figured to give the levers a go and bought myself a working early 90's unit (single button pressurestat model but without removable steam wand), in reasonably good cosmetic condition as well. (just some rust under the plastic tray, but easy fix as the base is painted black - otherwise nice looking overall) After giving it a good cleaning I was able to vastly improve my technique within very few extractions and got some crema in a 40ish ml shot - single pull.

So far, the only thing that bothers me about the machine is the fact that upon heating it up it loses some 100-110ml of water through the group (with lever fully down, of course). After it warms up the group seals up nice, but the amount of water lost on heat-up seems rather large. I tried to let the false pressure go while heating up (as opposed to waiting until the green light comes off) and this seems to improve things a bit, but not much- still losing some good 80-90ml through the group before it heats up and seals off.

What is your experience about the volume of water that pours through the group while the machine is heating up? I'm trying to figure out whether this is normal or I should start shopping around for the piston gaskets :)

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drgary
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#2: Post by drgary »

Adrian,

You should have no drips from the group. My first guess at a complete fix is replacing the piston gaskets. When doing so you'll sparingly lube them and the inside of the cylinder with DOW 111.

The reason water is getting through until it heats up is the upper piston gasket isn't quite sealing until it expands with heat. The upper one should hold back water that's above it. With a used machine these often need refreshing.
Gary
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day
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#3: Post by day replying to drgary »

+1
Yes, i you per this on an iPhone

AdrianN (original poster)
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#4: Post by AdrianN (original poster) »

Thanks guys, that's what I was suspecting.

Are the piston gaskets identical with those found on the later versions? As for lubrication, is there any reason not to use some tiny amount of food-grade silicone grease? Dow 111 doesn't seem to be easy to find in my corner of the world.

HoldTheOnions
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#5: Post by HoldTheOnions »

What country are you in? Search for Molykote 111, I am seeing on amazon in uk, deutsch, france, italia, and espana.

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drgary
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#6: Post by drgary »

Piston gaskets are the same size as for the Millennium (3rd generation) group.
Gary
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rpavlis
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#7: Post by rpavlis »

Be sure NOT to use other lubricants for the seals than one of the "silicones". Most other ones will diffuse into the seals and cause them to soften and fail prematurely. Do NOT use the silicones for the metal to metal moving parts of the handle and associated rollers and pins. Use a good heavy hydrocarbon based grease for these. Failure to keep these parts lubricated will result in premature wear.

You might want be sure that the inside walls of the group bore are smooth and undamaged when you replace the seals. You might even want to polish it with something like Brasso or Bar Keeper's Friend if it be not smooth. That will also extend the lives of the next seal set.

AdrianN (original poster)
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#8: Post by AdrianN (original poster) »

Guys, I'm happy to let you know that I managed to sort it out without changing anything. Apparently the piston seals/gaskets were not worn but hardened from lack of use. I removed the piston, cleaned the group walls really well, then simply boiled the piston with the gaskets on it for about 1 hour (set the temperature so the piston doesn't bounce around in the pot).
After that I reinstalled it using a tiny bit of silicone grease purchased from a local hardware store and the warm-up leak became irrelevant (less then 10ml).
I will now shop for the gaskets without any rush :)