No just this one thread - great thanks for the advice

one other thing my espresso comes out quite bitter is this normal? I'm not burning it am I with overheated water?

To chime in on one of the side points here...

I've got a Euro Millennium and have gone through many different routines with regard to water, how often I empty, etc. Currently, I tip it at the end of each session, clean the grouphead, and leave the boiler empty. I do this for fear of whatever metals may be leaching into the water during use, figuring it's better to dump at the end, and start with fresh -- from the tap -- the next day.

Unnecessary?

And is this 'wet/dry cycling effect' really contributing to premature wear, or damage? I haven't noticed any, but then, maybe it wouldn't be noticeable till something happens.

I'd gladly go back to topping off if my health concerns are unwarranted, and if doing so is actually better for the machine...

pavman wrote:the end, and start with fresh -- from the tap -- the next day.

Unnecessary?

And is this 'wet/dry cycling effect' really contributing to premature wear, or damage? I haven't noticed any, but then, maybe it wouldn't be noticeable till something happens.

I'd gladly go back to topping off if my health concerns are unwarranted, and if doing so is actually better for the machine...

Tap water? You're brave Do you use any sort of filter?

As to the question of wet/dry cycling, it's difficult to say for sure. I have noticed that when I wash my Kyocera grinder, the tolerances change ever so slightly between wet and dry. Air tends to have an oxidizing effect in a lot of cases, also. Myself, I usually always leave a bit of water in the boiler, just so the elements are still submerged and so that the joints where the rubber O-ring is located aren't constantly going from wet to dry. It may be overkill, but that's how I do it.

On a sort of related subject (speaking of oxidation), I remember the kids next door had this heavy iron railing that wrapped along their walk way. The top rail was about 1/2 or 5/8 thick - a solid square iron bar that ran along the top of the metal posts. All the kids road motorcycles and made stuff in their garage, etc. Anyway, so one day I noticed all these odd holes through the railing. Almost like someone had drilled, but then stopped as soon as they broke through. Like if you took a center drill and drilled down into the railing, but didn't always get the middle of the rail (some holes were off center, etc, etc.)

So one day I ask my friend, Josh (youngest of the 3 kids who lived next door), what the story was. Turns out, they were sitting on the rail every single day, and watching their spit cause it to rust. Each day on the way to school, they would stop, spit in the little area where they had started some oxidation and then head to school. Every so often they would chip away the rust that had formed and continue.

Can you imagine boring through 5/8" of iron with nothing more than spit and rust? They must have been doing that for several years. If you think about say 1/2 of steel, that's .500" of an inch (500 thousands). So if you wet the surface and allow it to rust, then break away the rust, maybe you have taken away a couple of thousands. Do that 250 or so times and pretty soon you have cut all the way through the railing of your mom's fence

Anyway, I just feel better having a little water in there; as opposed to having it constantly going from wet to dry.

Ray

tmca34 wrote:No just this one thread - great thanks for the advice

one other thing my espresso comes out quite bitter is this normal? I'm not burning it am I with overheated water?

now you'll get into some of the normal wiki type stuff for the EP

for instance most folks are going to immediately want to know what grinder and beans you're using

beans need to be within two weeks of being roasted and grinder needs to be able to make quite a fine grind in order to pull nice shots

once you have a way to grind fine enough and a source of fresh beans then you'll be into refining dose, tamp, and extraction method i.e. how you pull the shot

so maybe start by describing what you've tried for beans, grind, etc. and we can help you make improvements

Hi probably sacrilege here but I bought (as I just got the machine 2 weeks ago) a canister of Illy ground coffee to get used to the machine and also the technique. I take it there is a major, major difference if you grind your own?

A grinder though is on my to buy list and I hope to get one within a month or two

tmca34 wrote:Hi probably sacrilege here but I bought (as I just got the machine 2 weeks ago) a canister of Illy ground coffee to get used to the machine and also the technique. I take it there is a major, major difference if you grind your own?

A grinder though is on my to buy list and I hope to get one within a month or two

I was desperate last Friday, as I had run out of coffee, and had a canister of illy in the fridge - I normally do about 15 second preinfusion, but the second I pulled the lever up it began to brew. The grind looked bang on with my grind, but as for freshness... who knows???

As for the grinder, a bunch of us around here use the Kyocera CM-45. This works well especially if you are only using the LaPav. It a cheap way to get started make great espresso.

I vote for the Porlex ceramic-burr hand grinder. While it uses the exact same burrs, I find my Porlex gives a more consistent, fluffier grind than my Kyocera, and with no static.

tmca34 wrote:Hi probably sacrilege here but I bought (as I just got the machine 2 weeks ago) a canister of Illy ground coffee to get used to the machine and also the technique. I take it there is a major, major difference if you grind your own?

A grinder though is on my to buy list and I hope to get one within a month or two

that used to be the standard advice to new Europiccola users - try the Illy pre-ground first

most people it seems now agree that the problem is that vacuum sealing doesn't truly imitate a fresh bean

once it's opened it seems to age incredibly quickly too

I'd say going to a local coffee shop and having them grind a half pound of fresh beans as fine as they'll go would give the best results without a grinder at home

I would also suggest waiting and purchasing a great grinder instead of rushing and compromising

the grinder is probably the single greatest mate to the EP and you'll find that if you don't skimp on the grinder then with time and fresh beans you'll end up with great coffee

Many thanks for this - I'll wait a while and get a good grinder - was going to get the La Pavoni base plate and a grinder all going well