I'm trying for a long time to get decent shots from my La Pavoni Europiccola (not Professional) but with no success.
I read all the forums, tips and advices I could find and followed every one of them, but no matter what I do, I get bitter (almost burnt) low crema shots.

I recently started using a KyM 9481 manual grinder I got from OrphanEspresso which grinds as far as powder fine. I also use fresh beans and follow all the tips to get the right pressure and heat.
I use about 15g of espresso and use a good tamper to tamp hard enough.

It seems to me that I don't get the right lever pressure when using normal espresso grind levels.
The lever goes down too easily. (Even though when the lever is raised to the highest level there is no drip coming down until I start the pull, which is good).
Only with the finest grind setting, which is almost powder fine, I get some good resistance (still not being able to choke it).
But even with the finest grind the shots still come bitter and with very low crema.

I also had the machine serviced with all seals replaced. This did not improve the shots quality.

I suspect something else is still wrong with my machine, that causes it not to create enough pressure (heat problem?) even with the finest grind.

Any advice on what can be the problem??

If, on the finest setting of the grinder, you're still not able to choke the machine, then the grinder isn't good enough for espresso. It sounds like you're doing everything right. The only other thing I can think of would be to lower the pstat on the machine.

Sounds like a grind problem to me, too. The Pavoni likes a very fine ground - almost powder but still gritty.

I'm assuming the beans are fresh.

Cheers

Mike

I do use fresh beans. Maybe the grinding is not fine enough...but it is very strange to me.

When I started taking shoots, I got freshly ground coffee from a local shop that grinds professionally with fresh beans.
First time, I asked them to make espresso fine grind for lever machines. With this grind level the pull was too easy and the quality poor.
I tried a few more times, each time with finer grind but no success.
The last time I got a much lower grind level which they said is almost good for Turkish. Still it was not good. The pull was harder but the espresso still not good and the machine did not choke.

I then bought the KyM grinder which is highly recommended manual grinder for espresso. It should be grinding at least as fine as the Rocky and is capable of grinding to powder. This KyM should be good enough for the Pavoni.
I use the finest grind level and I get powder like grind which seems good to me.
The pull is as hard as I ever got but the espresso is still too bitter and with no crema.

I still suspect something else is wrong.
Maybe it is a pstat issue? How can I lower the pstat on the machine?

I also think it is the grinder. I had similar problems until I switched from my PE DE manual to the Rocky.
I will say that even though I get some crema....it isn't very long lived and of any great quantity. I guess I attribute that to my home roasting....but an even better grinder may also give me some improvement there. Since I mainly make morning cappuccinos I don't notice any bitterness. I do have enough crema to make latte art....on the days when I get the microfoam just right.

Are you leaving the lever up for at least a count of 10?

I do wait and count to 10 before lowering the lever.
Nothing comes out until I start the pull which is a good sign.
I also noticed that the lever start going down easily until it is almost level and only then I start feeling the pressure. Is it supposed to be like this?

I bought the KyM grinder I'm using from OrphanEspsresso which are experts in restoing vintage grinders.
They fully test them and categorize them as capable for espresso and define their grind level.
Mine supposed to do powder fine grinds so it should be good for the Pavoni.

I am going to try again using professional grinder, with the finest grind possible, to see if it helps.

I would think that pre-ground coffee would be worse depending on when it was roasted...so that you may not be able to tell from that.

Roasted coffee freshness = under 10 days old....the peak at maybe half that many days.

Sometimes I've noticed the level pressure stronger at level but mostly it starts out fairly firm. I find it is easy to choke my machine with too fine a grind with fresh coffee.

With newly roasted coffee beans I set my Rocky at 7 or 8...as days pass it eventually gets down to needing to be set at 4 or 5 for 'the right' pressure. Decaf requires a finer grind. Not that that means much to you. I am pulling quite a bit of weight in pressure and think that it helps fulfill my need for weight bearing exercise.

I was originally advised to get a can of Illy Espresso to get a feel for how fine I needed to grind.

In my first attempts I tried using Illy pre-ground espresso as well. I was not even close to what I get now with my grinder. With the Illy I didn't get enough pressure on the lever.
This adds to my doubt that something else is wrong and not necessarily the grinding....

Can you tell us how you are using the Europiccola?

I don't want to say that the suggestions of the problem lying with the beans and grind may not be right - those are in fact some of the most frequent causes of someone getting a below-par low crema shot with a Pavoni, but it is also possible that you're letting the machine overheat and that it is burning the coffee, especially if you are letting it infuse for more than 10 seconds.

It would help if you could tell us the year of your Europiccola, how many switches it has, whether the steam wand is a quick-detach design or not, and the procedure you are following from the moment you fill it with water and switch it on.

Pre-ground will not work well with a Lav, however, especially if whoever is grinding has little experience of lever espresso machines. One of the best commercial pre-grounds is Illy (though you can get much better beans from artisan/gourmet roasters), but (and this is the point) even Illy's grind (which is finer than Lavazza's for example) is STILL TOO COARSE for a La Pavoni.

From what you are saying about no drips for more than 10 secs, though, it is likely that the grind is not too coarse unless you are tamping very heavily.

Cheers

Mike

The coffee could be too darkly roasted, or too light. Is it a good espresso blend? Get some from a shop where they can pull a good shot, and where you can try it. Then buy it fresh, and grind it one shot at a time.

Try filling the basket a bit fuller if possible. Not only grind fineness, but also more coffee (increased dose) increases pressure. If need be, dose, tamp lightly, and dose a little more. Eventually you WILL CHOKE the machine (wait a while before removing the PF!!!! or it will SNEEZE). Once you've achieved choke, back off on the grind 1/4 turn or so (keep the dose the same).

Try this and let us know how you get on.

PC

I'm using the Millenium model with one red switch and green light. No pressure gauge.
I also used different kind of beans to make sure there is not problem with the ones I use.
I get the same results not matter what beans I use.

I did notice that with the 15g dose and the tamping I use the basket is almost half empty. Is this how it supposed to be?

Maybe I should dose more.
I will take your advice and try to dose more and see if I can get the machine to choke.
Then I'll lower the grind level....

It seems only a problem of coffee and grind. The coffee must be freshly roasted. I don't know if your grinder is good emough but I know it's quite difficult to dial in a grinder for a La Pavoni. I suppose a manual grinder will be even more difficult . Also know that too fine a grind will also give poor results. Preground coffee won't work.
15 gr is more than enough. Try lower the dose. I use 13 gr with good results.
Also some coffess give poor crema for espresso.
Last lift the lever very slowly so that you don't damage the puck.

I concur: I do not lock in the portafilter completely (just enough to keep in up), then I slowly lift the lever to just before the water starts to fill. Then I lock the portafilter handle and finish lifting the lever so that the water starts to fill....this is all to not disturb the tampered ground coffee.

I did some dosing test this time adding more than 15g.

This seems to choke the machine. The lever started going down easily but at half way it was so hard I could not get it fully down. Only a little bit. The small amount of espresso coming out was really bitter.
I also had hard time cleaning the basket as some of the coffee got stuck to it.

I may need to experiment more with beans/grind/dosing/tamping to understand where is the problem.
I still think I should be able to get decent shots with 12g to 15g dosing.

<<I still think I should be able to get decent shots with 12g to 15g dosing.>>

You should - certainly with 15g. I'd hold the dose and try grinding finer.

Is the machine new? If not, some of the problem could be contamination.

You don't need a warming shot on millennium models. Just pump the piston without taking it all the way to the top, as it says in the instructions. When the head is only just too hot to touch, you're ready to go. If you really want to preheat everything, including the portafilter and cup, don't pull an espresso, just pull a cup of water.

Cheers

Mike

In my opinion the downdosing discussions common to HB don't really apply to home lever machines.

Lever machines enjoy the unique function of being able to push a relatively uniform stream of water through the puck. If the basket is full, there is little room for the puck to be disturbed. A less-than full basket allows the puck to be disturbed, minimizing the main advantage of piston extraction.

If you choked the machine with a full dose, why not back off 1/4 turn and try again. The lever should be pleasantly difficult to pull down, resulting in a steady stream of thick, syrupy elixir. Taste it. Its good. Why do you care how much the coffee in the basket weighs, as long as you get a good result in the cup?

Anyway, that's what has worked best for me for the past 3000-4000 shots.

PC

Oh, and I agree that the LP in my limited experience did not need any pre-warming of the group. In fact, I found it best to pull the shots as soon as the ready light went out and false pressure had been released. The boiler water is way too hot for proper extraction, so the group must be cool enough to absorb some of that heat (I like it cool enough to touch without causing severe pain!)

PC

I also use pain as my heat switch

But I definitely find with some single origins, particularly fruity ones, I only want to dose so that with infusion the puck/grinds expand to just fill the cavity - absolutely minimal screen marking on puck. This applies more to the MCaL than the La Pavoni, but does apply to both. Vastly better results with something like a Yirg or wild Bonga. Oily espresso blends allow more leeway....

Cheers

Mike

I did a couple more tests today with two different kinds of beans.
In both tests I reduced the grind level a 1/4 a turn less than the last time I choked the machine.
I also dosed more than 15g.

In the first shot I tamped lighter than usual. The lever started coming down easily giving pressure only when it was level (more or less midway). The pressure was not hard enough and I got the same results I usually get.




Second shot was with different beans and this time I tamped a bit harder. The pressure started earlier and seems to be hard enough. (Even though the coffee start coming out only midway).
This time the result was more or less the same but strangely the coffee seems oily. (oil rings inside!)




Again, I still don't know what I'm doing wrong and what I'm missing. No matter what parameter is changed (grind/dose/tamp/beans) I get the same poor results.

That last shot looks like the example of overextraction at the Sweet Maria's crema diagnosis page http://www.sweetmarias.com/espresso-crema.html. The first one also appears to have some oil globules, so it's likely overextracted also.